Blood Flow Occlusion Training

Anybody experimented with occlusion training for the forearms? or other muscle groups? There seems to be some good evidence that it can provide strong results, see here:
-Effects of Handgrip Training With Venous Restriction on Brachial Artery Vasodilation
and here:
-Neuromuscular adaptations in human muscle following low intensity resistance training with vascular occlusion.

For a general overview of what occlusion training is see here:
-Do you occlude?
and here
- Blood Flow Restriction Training

Question is what types of exercises would be best performed while occluding blood flow? Isometic or Isotonic? I am going to try this with my next hangboard cycle and see what the effects are.

Interesting, keep us posted!

Seems interesting that one of the studies reported improved arterial blood flow through the arms to the gripping muscles from this restricted venous blood flow training (in addition to increased gripping strength, which most climbers already know how to achieve by other kinds of training).

Interesting because several climbing authorities seem to say that a key limitation to endurance in isometric "hanging onto the holds" is the constriction of blood vessels in the arms due to muscular tension.

So if this restricted venous blood flow training can improve blood flow into (and out of?) the gripping muscles, that could result in a significant increase in climbing-specific endurance.

Ken

Do you think doing a hangboard workout with max weight added/removed with respect to the grips being trained would be too much? Since we do so few reps 7 sec on 3 rest 3-7 times per grip, compared to the video in that link of the 20% of max weight 60+ reps, we can stay with our current max weight added/removed or would that be a risk of injury?

For example would a 2 finger pocket with 20 pounds added (max) be okay or should the 2 finger pocket be trained with 4 pounds when occluding.

Edit: After reading more...

Very interesting stuff however sounds like it's better for rehab than max weight for our fingers.

More thoughts on this - Maybe this would be better for a power endurance phase than strength phase? As removing the band every 30-60 seconds for repeaters may not be longer enough to achieve the desired effect? Better for a 4x4? Which would entail lighter loads (multiple V grades performed decently below max).

"Practical Application
The muscle is usually occluded when you are using heavier weights (> 60% of1RM). But you can occlude or reduce blood flow a bit more with some other techniques.

-Not relaxing the muscle throughout the set. Or maintain the tension thought the muscle by doing partial movements and/or contracting them hard.
-Keeping rest time between sets short
-Doing a drop set with lighter weights after your heavy set. When you use heavy weight, you are recruiting ALL your fibers from the very first rep.So a drop set can give you some metabolic build up (the burn) which may help in muscle growth.
-Occluding the muscles for more than 5-10 minutes with tourniquets can cause serious muscle damage."

exercisebiology.com/index.p…

kenr wrote:Seems interesting that one of the studies reported improved arterial blood flow through the arms to the gripping muscles from this restricted venous blood flow training (in addition to increased gripping strength, which most climbers already know how to achieve by other kinds of training). Interesting because several climbing authorities seem to say that a key limitation to endurance in isometric "hanging onto the holds" is the constriction of blood vessels in the arms due to muscular tension. So if this restricted venous blood flow training can improve blood flow into (and out of?) the gripping muscles, that could result in a significant increase in climbing-specific endurance. Ken

Ken that is an interesting tid-bit you picked out there. I wonder if this could be trained via Isotonic Exercise (heavy finger rolls), where it may be easier to control load/efffort/exertion, then on a fingerboard.

Ben Dubs wrote:Do you think doing a hangboard workout with max weight added/removed with respect to the grips being trained would be too much? Since we do so few reps 7 sec on 3 rest 3-7 times per grip, compared to the video in that link of the 20% of max weight 60+ reps, we can stay with our current max weight added/removed or would that be a risk of injury? For example would a 2 finger pocket with 20 pounds added (max) be okay or should the 2 finger pocket be trained with 4 pounds when occluding. Edit: After reading more... Very interesting stuff however sounds like it's better for rehab than max weight for our fingers. More thoughts on this - Maybe this would be better for a power endurance phase than strength phase? As removing the band every 30-60 seconds for repeaters may not be longer enough to achieve the desired effect? Better for a 4x4? Which would entail lighter loads (multiple V grades performed decently below max). "Practical Application The muscle is usually occluded when you are using heavier weights (> 60% of1RM). But you can occlude or reduce blood flow a bit more with some other techniques. -Not relaxing the muscle throughout the set. Or maintain the tension thought the muscle by doing partial movements and/or contracting them hard. -Keeping rest time between sets short -Doing a drop set with lighter weights after your heavy set. When you use heavy weight, you are recruiting ALL your fibers from the very first rep.So a drop set can give you some metabolic build up (the burn) which may help in muscle growth. -Occluding the muscles for more than 5-10 minutes with tourniquets can cause serious muscle damage." exercisebiology.com/index.p…

I think the loads involved for most fingerboard workouts are probably do large to be used successfully with occlusion training, but that is just a guess given my limited knowledge space. I was planning to reduce my load to under 30% of my usual working weight for the given exercises.

kerwinl wrote: Ken that is an interesting tid-bit you picked out there. I wonder if this could be trained via Isotonic Exercise (heavy finger rolls), where it may be easier to control load/efffort/exertion, then on a fingerboard.

This sounds an easy exercise to try without having to change my current hangboard workout. LET THE TRIALS BEGIN!

kerwinl wrote: Ken that is an interesting tid-bit you picked out there. I wonder if this could be trained via Isotonic Exercise (heavy finger rolls), where it may be easier to control load/efffort/exertion, then on a fingerboard.

i don't see how you could possibly control the loads more easily doing heavy finger rolls than using a hangboard (?). with heavy finger rolls it is much harder to keep the bar from slipping off of the tips of your fingers if you try to utililze the full range of motion, otherwise you just end of cheating the exercise. there are too many other ways to cheat the exercise also (ie bouncing, dropping your hand while you perform the roll, etc).

Only have a second here, didn't read the preceeding posts but...a couple thoughts anyway:

1. The only studies on occlusion I've seen were using light weights and measuring strength gains.

2. Once you approach about the 8-12 rep range of weight (somewhere around 65-75% 1RM), the forearm muscles in questions will be occluded from "pump" anyway.

My takeaway is that you already are doing occlusion training during PE focused activities. My own PE work tends to focus around 25-35 move "sets", which more or less puts you around the 12rep-per-side range...so your PE work is already occlusion training.