Backpacks

Well I went outside climbing for the first time today and had a blast! Thanks John.

One thing was pretty obvious whilst trying to pull what little gear, plus extra clothing, water, etc. together. I need a pack just for climbing. The others I have are set aside for different activities, and either far too big or too small.

I don't like buying things twice when I don't have to so, what size of pack should I be looking for? I'm thinking 70L but I'm not sure. Are there any real advantages to having a climbing specific pack vs just getting a solid backpacking pack? I had the Osprey Volt 75 in mind:

ospreypacks.com/en/product/…

Any input or suggestions would be appreciated. And if it helps, I intend to get into trad climbing, though that may be far enough away that I'll have worn out whatever I buy before then. ;^)

For climbing, a 70L pack is way too big. There's nothing "wrong" with using a pack that's too big for cragging, but it's unnecessary weight and bulk. That's about expedition size, so maybe you want to use it for week-long backpacking trips, too?

Personally, I think 40L is about right for cragging, although you will get people that tell you smaller sizes are sufficient. Whatever works for you.

You won't find any one-size-fits-all backpacks; different sizes for different activities (summit/daypack, cragging, backpacking, etc). You'll end up with several sizes of packs if you continue to climb and backpack.

This is my current cragging pack and I think it's great:

metoliusclimbing.com/freeri…

Most anything with a frame will suck to have on your back as your climbing because it won't let your back move very well. 75 litres is WAY too big for a climbing backpack.

I use the 16 litre BD Bullet and like it a lot. blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

When doing single day multi-pitch climbs all I mostly need is water, rain jacket, some food, approach shoes, and maybe a camera or something. That all perfectly fits with a bullet pack. Don't use a "backpacking" pack, they're not built for climbing in mind so it'll be a PITA.

70 liters is huge! Thats a full scale backpacking bag good for a week long trip. The Osprey Volt is a great bag, but it really would only apply to climbing if you were on an expedition, headed somewhere to camp out and do a lot of climbing. 40/45 liters is all you should ever need for a day of rock climbing. Climbing specific bags are great and have lots of features designed around climbing in general that are really convenient if you do a lot of climbing. I climb multiple days a week, so a climbing bag is great because of the added convenience. If your only climbing a few times a month it's probably another expense you don't need. Most people have crag bag's, that you can use and carry your stuff to the crag for the the day. These are awesome. There are different bags for taking to the crag, hitting a quick summit in the winter, or carrying up a multi-pitch climb. For multi-pitch climbs, you'll need a small day bag like the REI Flash 18 or the BD Dart bag. When your doing multi-pitch stuff, depending on the situation, you walk in geared up or carry a big bag and leave it at the bottom if your not worried about it getting stolen. No one climb's with a 70 liter bag, and theres no way you would need to carry that much stuff unless you were backpacking. You need to decide how much climbing your going to be doing, and if you want a 40/50 liter bag that works for backpacking and climbing, or a climbing specific bag. With that being said..

I use the Mammut Neon Gear 45 as a summer crag bag and it works great. It fits a 85' static, full trad rack, tons of gear and hard goods, a jacket, lunch, helmet, guidebook, first aid, sunscreen, 2L+ of water, harness, shoes and so on..... I can't imagine that you need more than that, and if you do, your probably doing something that would require a completely different gear set and back type. This bag opens from the back which is awesome, and has a built in rope tarp and chalk storage bag to keep chalk from getting all over the place. Its an awesome summer crag bag and I've been very happy with it so far. Link found here

Some other ideas for comparison:

People swear by the WorkSacks made by Cilogear, so I would check them. Probably overkill for start out climbing. Check those out here

The MH Hueco is another popular one on the smaller end if your not yet lugging around full trad rack or going lighter. Link to that here

The Black Diamond Epic/Speed bags are meant for winter climbing but also make decent summer crag bags. Good way to buy one bag that does both well.

Something like the Petzl Bolsa would also work. It's designed as a rope bag/tarp system that you can also carry gear in too. Not as room or comfortable but a great rope carry system.

I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to backpacks and packing. I have had really great success with my osprey talon 44L as a good all around crag pack. I wouldn't cart it up a route, but I don't climb all day routes. I think the talon has just enough space to be comfortable. I can easily toss lunch, water, draws, harness, two sets of shoes, sunscreen, light layers, etc. in it without having to play Tetris with my stuff every time we move to a different climb. A trad rack with doubles also fits nicely.

I also have a talon 22L which I use when I'm going sport climbing and it's going to be hot all day. It's a little on the small side, but worth it when I don't want to deal with a big floppy pack.

Glad you're getting outside and best of luck finding your perfect pack!

Mathias wrote:I don't like buying things twice when I don't have to so, what size of pack should I be looking for? I'm thinking 70L but I'm not sure. Are there any real advantages to having a climbing specific pack vs just getting a solid backpacking pack?

If you are just doing a day of multi-pitch trad and want to carry water, snacks, shoes, jacket... etc, get something about 20L. REI Flash 18s are popular. There also are better ones that may cost more.

For a cragging, alpine, or an overnight pack, I agree that 75 is way too big. I have a Mammut Trion Guide 45+7 and I highly recommend it. It expands to hold a ton of gear, and will also cinch down to almost nothing while climbing. Very comfortable, even loaded, and bomber.

Whatever you get, definitely look for one that is climbing specific. Besides having features like gear and axe loops, crampon pockets, etc., they will move more comfortably while climbing. Regular packs may carry too high or low on the back and interfere with your harness, or not allow you to look up while wearing a helmet, for example.

Thanks for the replies,everyone.

Just to be clear, the bag is not for taking up multi-pitch routes, just for getting everything to the crag. When I get to multi-pitch trad I'll probably get a small hydration pack for the essentials. But that's another story.

Can you all really fit a rope, trad rack, shoes, helmet, harness, extra layers, food, water, and all those other bits and pieces into a 40L? I've got a 38L for hiking and I can't imagine getting all that into that little pack.

Mathias wrote:Can you all really fit a rope, trad rack, shoes, helmet, harness, extra layers, food, water, and all those other bits and pieces into a 40L? I've got a 38L for hiking and I can't imagine getting all that into that little pack.

Yep. Seriously... full rack, slings/cords/draws, harness, extra layers, food, water, and helmet all inside. Little items in the top pack. Rope coiled and strapped outside and underneath the top pack (it has great specific straps for this). Shoes and chalk bag clipped on the back loops. Carries comfortably.

Depending on some logistics like how big your rope is and how much stuff you bring it could all fit in a 40. A cheat that helps a lot if you stick the rope under the brain if your pack so it is perpendicular to your back. That helps save a lot of room.

Well okay. I'll start looking in the 40-50L area. I prefer a little extra space in a pack but 30L is a lot of extra space.

I like the looks of the Metolius pack Frank linked to. Looks tough. How about MM packs? Anyone have experience with them?

I usually crag with a 30L. You must have a fun partner if you're carrying the rope and a full rack.

I bring a 50L when I'm mixed cragging and I want ice gear, rock gear, a bunch of warm clothes, a DSLR kit, some hot cocoa, and a feast of snacks.

If the approach is really short and I want a bunch of creature comforts, I might just bring a grade V haul bag. I can easily pack everyone's gear back down to the car at the end of the day. Might earn me a beer.

I'm gonna second the Mammut Neon Gear 45 for single pitch crag days. It holds all my anchor gear, my double trad rack, food, water, harness, and a layer inside. Shoes, helmet, and rope go outside. I really dig the back zipper. It allows me to get to things at the very bottom of my pack without pulling everything out. The rope bag and chalk bag are great too!

Both the Mammut Trion and Neon look good. It seems the Neon has more pockets but is perhaps less comfortable for longer approaches.

Mountain Hardwear Splitter 40! I got mine with my REI Dividend this year and I love it. The rope strap on the outside is an awesome feature and the inner pockets are great for organizing your gear. I generally fit my shoes, harness, chalk bag, quick draws, lunch, and helmet inside with ease. If you don't use the compression feature that holds your draws to your back and instead let them rest in the bottom of the pack you can also fit a hydration bladder in there even though it's not designed to do so. Oh and it comes with a rope tarp!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYG5l…

outdoorgearlab.com/climbing…
I've found this site to help out with any research in what to get next.
It depends on what you all plan on fitting in the pack. I recently got a Petzl Bug (18L) and love it, and it works great for a small day pack, and has straps to tie a rope in on the bottom of it, and is pretty loaded with cool features. It's great for a daypack, or smaller gear bag.

I've had a Cilogear Worksack for several years now and it is still kicking strong after a ton of use. It's a 35, expands to 45, and with the lid there's probably another 5 or so. I use it for nearly everything, even cinched down as a day back in the mountains it outperforms other packs I've used. It gets dragged around at dirty crags (easily holds everything for cragging), gets stuffed with 4-5 days of back backing gear and hauled miles into the back country, has been used on a ton of day trips in the alpine, summer and winter conditions, and I spent a season up at Silverton Mountain riding with it as a winter slack-country pack every weekend. Sometimes I get frustrated with it and think I need to find some specialty pack, then I buy and use something else and realize the Worksack is better. I've yet to find a pack as versatile as it is.

As much as I want and have tried to, I haven't been able to jump on the Osprey bandwagon. I have one of their ski packs and while it has some nice features, it's awful. Way too heavy, way to many straps, buckles, loops, impossible to adjust, difficult to get stuff in and out, it's a total PITA. Their packs seem to suffer from feature explosion... way too much going on.

Mathias wrote:Both the Mammut Trion and Neon look good. It seems the Neon has more pockets but is perhaps less comfortable for longer approaches.

I'll weigh in on the Trion packs. I've got the Trion Light 55+ and a climbing buddy of mine has the Trion Pro 35+7. The Light 55+ is probably a bit big for a day climbing pack but it does come in a 28+ and 40+ size also. What I love about the 55+ is that it's super light (1kg) and if you want to pair the weight down even more you can remove the hipbelt and toplid. The Trion Pro on the otherhand is a bit heavier but made out of more burley fabric, which if you're using it as a cragging pack would probably help. Last thing - since Mammut is still seen as a 'smaller' brand in the US - you can usually find their stuff on sale at a really good price compared to other top range brands. Just my 2c but good luck with the search.

The neon gear definietly isn't the most comfy, but I've hiked well over a mile on some approaches with a heavy heavy rack and didn't think it was too bad. The trion is definietly more comfortable. If you can, try to find a local store you can check them out at.

So I haven't check in the basement yet but I realized I have/had a very tough 41L. I retired it from hiking because it's 15 years old and wasn't made with a breathable back pad, so consequently it's pretty uncomfortable on long hikes. But it's still in very good condition and I'm sure it's around somewhere. It'll keep me going til I can get to some well stocked stores and look at as many packs as possible.

What's wrong with the 38L pack you currently own?

The 38L I currently have is set up for hiking. There's a bunch of stuff in it that I just don't need for a trip to the crag. I like to be over prepared when hiking so it's pretty stuffed and I'm not a big fan of repacking every time I go out. So there's nothing wrong with it, it's just occupied.