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Natural Belay Anchor

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847

The difference between a TR anchor and an anchor to bring up the second is as follows.

The TR anchor needs to have the master point below cliffs edge. When lowering on a weighted rope over an edge it inflicts a lot of wear and drag on the rope. The sharper the edge the worst it is.

Bring up the second involves no lowering so one can build the anchor over the top of the edge of the cliff.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
rocknice2 wrote:The difference between a TR anchor and an anchor to bring up the second is as follows. The TR anchor needs to have the master point below cliffs edge. When lowering on a weighted rope over an edge it inflicts a lot of wear and drag on the rope. The sharper the edge the worst it is. Bring up the second involves no lowering so one can build the anchor over the top of the edge of the cliff.
unless the second hangdogs and has issues with the move

then the rope will rub over and over again on the edge at the same point each time they try the move

which is even worse than lowering

;)
Jim Corbett · · Keene, NY · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 10

One of the more bizarre things that has occurred between the convergence of the internet and the unfortunate popularity of climbing is the constant debate of crap that makes no practical difference but is only of theoretical interest at the margin. I'm tempted to blame Largo, but also the insecurity of those who constantly want the blessing of some sort of certification (BTW, I'm not talking about the OP here, but rather those who think you need the blessing of a 'certified' AMGA guide for setting up a TR. For f**ks sake.)

I used to climb a fair bit at Lost Wall: the only thing that matters here is whether between the bazillion people who climb and TR Guzzler and the pine beetle that there is in fact two sound trees to anchor to. The rest of this is pretty much arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Almost any anchor system that can pass the common sense sniff test will work just fine, unless you are trying to belay a '56 Chevy.

Nate Solnit · · Bath, NH · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0

The knot I generally use is a bowline (with a half fisherman's or overhand backup). It's as strong as a fig 8 but you don't have to estimate how much rope you need and pre tie half the knot which is especially irritating around large trees and boulders. I personally wouldn't bother retying the fisherman's around the tree but I guess it's an option if you felt you needed to have the chord doubled up and it was long enough.

But also what Jim said...

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

I am going to pick nits here. The OP said:

adam cofield wrote:I built a natural belay anchor ...
He said nothing about a TR anchor:

Alex Bury wrote:Again, the question is about TOP ROPING in a single pitch environment.
So I am not sure why all the angst. Further is statement is not correct:

Alex Bury wrote:Still a top rope, you are just using a direct belay at the top of the crag.
There can be a significant difference in how one may set a belay anchor and one sets a TR anchor. A TR anchor can not be managed once set. I.e. a climber may wander and change the loading. Thus one needs to account for that. With a belay anchors the belayer can actively manage that loading. So one can set such anchors quite differently.
Alex Bury · · Ojai, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 2,376
adam cofield wrote: I built a belay anchor at the top of a single pitch climb and belayed my second directly off the power point with a grigri, so it definitely wasn't a toprope setup.
Allen Sanderson wrote:He said nothing about a TR anchor...A TR anchor can not be managed once set.
Im sticking to my guns. You guys are confused. It is a top managed toprope rig.
You'd be correct if you said it was not a "slingshot"/"yo-yo" rig, but that's not what ya said ;^]

  • *and there's no angst here brother, just the MP spirit. Take it with a grain of salt, usually I'm the clueless one**
Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 342

I'm going back to Supertopo. You guys make my head hurt.

Alex Bury · · Ojai, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 2,376

Ok. Enjoy JL's "What is Mind" thread....

Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 342

Largo's Mind thread is wayyyy to long and convoluted to wrap my head around. If you can sift thru all the rubble most of the TR's are top notch stuff and worth hanging out there just for that.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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