How Bad is Beer??

Morgan Patterson wrote: Familiar with many of the processes and thanks for making the point... I don't claim to know everything but as I have stated I act on the precautionary principle. From the discussion those of you in support of these creations seemingly give your full and total devotion to their safety and the veracity with with which many of you stand behind the science full well knowing that much of the pro-GMO science is industry funded, seems somewhat blind. To think the science is settled and all issues have been vetted seems nieve. Science has been wrong many many times... just look at the margarine example provided above.

Do you need some extra acreage to grow the materials for that giant strawman?

Not one person has taken the position of devoted industry groupie.

Your basic argument boils down to:

-science has been wrong before (which is no surprise to anyone involved in science)

-all the research is corrupt

I find your arguments less than compelling. What might sway me is cold, hard actual data showing GMO's are dangerous, and explaining how and why (mechanistically) that is the case. Anything else is just worthless opinion.

What would sway you to believing GMO's are not an existential crisis (or at least at marginally safe)?

Morgan is at least right in saying GMOs are a risk. Science could uncover something in the future. You could choose to avoid it because you don't trust it yet.

But the way I figure it, same goes for any other food. People may have been eating corn for millions of years, but it was only in the last decade or two that we started to figure out some of the problems with eating lots of corn.

Which really circles back to one of my core philosophies. Variety. If corn causes cancer, but your diet is only 2% corn, you're probably OK. If it turns out kale causes cancer and your diet is 80% kale, you're f*cked.

Patrick Shyvers wrote:Morgan is at least right in saying GMOs are a risk. Science could uncover something in the future. You could choose to avoid it because you don't trust it yet. But the way I figure it, same goes for any other food. People may have been eating corn for millions of years, but it was only in the last decade or two that we started to figure out some of the problems with eating lots of corn. Which really circles back to one of my core philosophies. Variety. If corn causes cancer, but your diet is only 2% corn, you're probably OK. If it turns out kale causes cancer and your diet is 80% kale, you're f*cked.

Meh, I don't care for this argument either. It's intellectually lazy. GMO's are a risk, in the same sense that waking up in the morning is a risk.

I save my caution for demonstrable, serious risks.

I don't disagree with your premise on variety one bit. All things, in moderation.

Also -

"As far as I'm concerned, everything causes cancer eventually anyway. So avoid the lead paint, but don't sweat a little red meat."

Quote of the Day!

Cheers.

The oldest woman that ever lived (122 y.o.) smoked for 50 years of her life, ate 2 pounds of chocolate a week and enjoyed a good amount of red wine and and olive oil. Learn it from the pros! Well, she was french...i think that helped too.

But Joan, did she drink beer produced with GMOs and adulterated with additives?

Benjamin Chapman wrote:But Joan, did she drink beer produced with GMOs and adulterated with additives?

Nope she did not. Also she did not give a crap about all that petty hipster first world problems you all are so worried about on here.

The problem is she knew what was in her smokes and her chocolates because the Food and Drug Act of 1938 and subsequent legislation required the manufactures to put the ingredients and cancer warning on the label , but that there is NO requirement for the producers of beer to disclose what they add to our beer. THAT'S A FIRST WORLD PROBLEM!

She was French. The FDA did nothing for her. Also she was 63 when the food & drug act was passed.

youtube.com/watch?v=XivoORV…

Whats wrong with GMO's? They're using the plants own DNA. Instead of cross pollinating it or slowly expressing a gene through generations of growth they just do it in a lab. I'd take a GMO over something covered in pesticides.

MC Poopypants wrote:The problems of our world are increasingly complex but the solutions remain simple. Food is one of the simple solutions. Hidden in the production, distribution and consumption of foods are profoundly negative effects on the environment, economy, health, equality, and politics worldwide. GMOs involve a wide variety of things that, as a whole, can neither be labeled as good or bad. A major motivator for the creation of GMOs is to make more money for the agricultural-industrial complex. When intentions are guided by the quest for money they typically have negative effects on others. Why do we need GMOs? Organic farming seems to work well most places with most foods. Why make it complicated? Ever hear of the 3-day food supply? Supporting local agriculture is one of the most important things we can do to protect our personal livelihood and community. Whole Foods is a joke, 99% marketing, 1% local food and full support of GMOs. An out of state based corporation trying to promote localism? If you care about food and are in Boulder I suggest Alfalfas or a farm. As for the beer, you care or you don’t. If you don’t have enough self-awareness and respect of life to care what you’re putting into your body and the planet then you are here attempting to reinforce your own sense of being right.

This is a big heaping pile of recycled hipster garbage.

Save water drink Beer

Found this article which addresses some of the points discussed in this thread.

Warning! The Curious Wavefunction blog is run by a real scientist (drug discovery chemist). Chemophobes should refrain from following this link.

RockinOut wrote:Whats wrong with GMO's? They're using the plants own DNA. Instead of cross pollinating it or slowly expressing a gene through generations of growth they just do it in a lab. I'd take a GMO over something covered in pesticides.

The point of GMO is that they CAN use pesticides that would otherwise kill the corn... this allows more pesticide use actually.

RockinOut wrote:Whats wrong with GMO's? They're using the plants own DNA. Instead of cross pollinating it or slowly expressing a gene through generations of growth they just do it in a lab.

That's not true. Many of the GMO plants for food consumption are altered by inserting genes from various bacteria. Other inserted genes may come from other plants.

Morgan Patterson wrote: The point of GMO is that they CAN use pesticides that would otherwise kill the corn... this allows more pesticide use actually.

What current widely used GMO corn in use was modified for pesticide resistance?

redlude97 wrote: What current widely used GMO corn in use was modified for pesticide resistance?

I don't know how widely it is used, but there is roundup ready corn.

But in any case:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyph…

Patrick Shyvers wrote: I don't know how widely it is used, but there is roundup ready corn. But in any case: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyph…

Lets be sure we understand the difference between a pesticide and herbicide first

redlude97 wrote: Lets be sure we understand the difference between a pesticide and herbicide first

Oops, now aren't I embarrassed.

It looks like Monsanto doesn't make pesticide-resistant crops, they make pesticide-producing crops:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans…

Patrick Shyvers wrote: Oops, now aren't I embarrassed. It looks like Monsanto doesn't make pesticide-resistant crops, they make pesticide-producing crops: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans…

Blah blah blah. That "pesticide" is used already by certified organic farmers and is approved for those uses. So any non GMO organic corn likely has the proteins applied already.

redlude97 wrote: Blah blah blah. That "pesticide" is used already by certified organic farmers and is approved for those uses. So any non GMO organic corn likely has the proteins applied already.

Oh, I'm not complaining. I just thought it was interesting.

Sidenote, it is a perennial source of amusement that there are certified organic pesticides. Specifically when a hippie is ranting about how they only eat organic food because all pesticides are evil.

Hell, even rubbing alcohol and soap can be used as pesticides. I use 'em to fight off the bugs that find my basil so delicious.