Clip in v tie in

Drew Dickey wrote:The only thing I would add, would be to run the locking carabiner through the two tie in points on the harness. Just as you would run the sharp end of a rope through the two tie in points. So, not just clipping the carabiner into the belay loop...

Actually this advice is totally incorrect and actually opens the system to danger.

Clipping into the leg loops and waist loop will load the biner in 3 directions. That 3rd load can pry the gate apart/open and cause a premature failure. Belay biners are only rated for loading in 2 directions. The belay loop is rated for 50kn (steel biners come in at 27kn), and can be loaded in multiple directions, just as the rope is. I do understand the forces generated in the scenario described by the OP are unlikey to rise enough to cause this sort of failure. It is still a terrible practice.

The reason we tie in through legs and waist is to keep that knot closer to your waist, easier to manage and clip than if it's flopping off the end of the belay loop.

the latest from the DAV considers

- a single 3 stage locker "good" for attachment top rope

- "best" (other than tying in) would be either 2 opposed lockers at least one of which be 3 stage, or two opposed lockers which cant rotate (non-crossloading ones)

DAV Panorama 2014-2

for full txt go here ...

alpenverein.de/chameleon/pu…

;)

I started teaching everyone how to tie in on my last venture to the home crag. My fiancé was actually excited about learning the knot (she was even practicing tying it at the house that night) as were others. Once you get them to understand how to follow the rope through the knot it's very simple.

And Craig, that's great advice about not clipping a biner through both loops instead of using your belay loop. I would of never thought that adding an extra load point would of compromised the biner. I've personally need clipped in that way because I was told that the only point you should clip a biner on your harness is the belay loop if it's weight bearing. They also said it wears your loops out because they weren't meant to have a biner through them. How much of that is true I'm not sure of.

Don't be lazy. Teach them to tie in correctly (with a double bowline/fishermans knot finish of course ;) )