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Diet and timing

Original Post
Phil Esra · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 100

Any thoughts on what to eat the day(s) before a redpoint attempt? Seems like a tricky balance between getting enough carbs to fuel the body, but retaining as little extra water weight as possible?

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608

Redpoint climbing really doesn't burn many calories (compared to say bicycling or alpine climbing). Unless you've done some specific glycogen-depletion protocol, your body should have plenty enough carbs stored so that's not a significant constrait on climbing.

I'd guess the more interesting conflict is between creatine fueling versus water-retention.

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

We need a lot more information about your current diet and body type. Recommendations are always highly dependent on your current situation, but I'll assume that you are the standard recreational sport climber and are operating somewhere in the 5.12 range (like a huge majority of us in the climbing world). You probably also eat a lot of processed food and drink a fair amount of beer.

Instead of worrying about dropping a pound or two before a red point attempt, you should take a serious look at your normal every day food intake. There is a good chance that you can remove a few things from your diet, replace them with healthier alternatives, and it will mean that you feel lighter and more energised ALL the time.

Personally, I rarely eat any type of grain or starchy vegetable (no pasta, no bread, no rice, no cereals, no potatoes, etc). I cheat 2-3 meals per week, but I get most of my carbs from fresh fruit and vegetables, or a seed like quinoa or buckwheat. I also have a higher fat intake than most people, mostly from things like fatty cuts of red meat, smoked salmon, nuts, avocados, etc.

I rarely change my diet at all before a performance day. My main focus is avoiding simple grains, refined sugars and alcohol. On my normal diet, I'd have to eat 4-5000 calories a day for at least 10-20 days to notice any real weight gain.

Everyone is different, and many people are probably going to follow this post by saying that cutting out all grains is crazy, but it works for me and I never would have guessed that it would before I started trying. I just have to make sure that I don't take it too far, which is why I purposely cheat a few times a week. It's impossible not to, really.

Whatever you do, make sure you are eating loads of fresh fruit and vegetables. Nothing that you eat can be absorbed properly if you aren't getting enough vitamins or micronutrients that are provided by fresh fruit and veg.

javd von dauber · · East Brookfield MA · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 91

I usually eat the largest burrito I can find.

Phil Esra · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 100
kenr wrote:Redpoint climbing really doesn't burn many calories (compared to say bicycling or alpine climbing). Unless you've done some specific glycogen-depletion protocol, your body should have plenty enough carbs stored so that's not a significant constrait on climbing. I'd guess the more interesting conflict is between creatine fueling versus water-retention.
Interesting! True, it's not really a lot of exercise. At age 40, I am 5 pounds heavier than I used to be, and I can't make it go away. So I'm always trying to restrict calories a bit, because if I'm not trying to lose a little weight, suddenly I'm 2 *more* pounds heavier. Seems like I'm always hungry, regardless of quality of foods in, ratios of carbs/fats/proteins, volume vs. calorie density, amount of fiber, etcetera. So in that context, I wondered if being slightly calorie-negative (which must happen sometimes, or I would be obese) would affect performance over a day of multiple redpoint burns...
Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245
Phil Esra wrote:... Seems like I'm always hungry, regardless of quality of foods in, ratios of carbs/fats/proteins, volume vs. calorie density, amount of fiber, etcetera...
Interesting way to put it. That is EXACTLY what I said when I had to explain to friends why I was changing my diet. I am 6ft, 155 soaking wet and can only gain weight if I lift a lot of weights (more than one should for climbing). They didn't understand why I needed to do anything other that eat what I want!

I wasn't worried about my weight, but always being hungry and having to eat every 2-3 hours was driving me crazy! It also took away from my quality of life because if I didn't eat, I felt terrible!

Maybe you don't have the same kind of problems I did, but I have to tell you that a healthy, all natural diet made up of a lot of plant and animal based foods has done me wonders. I didn't quit anything cold turkey and I am not OCD about anything, but roughly 5 meals out of 6 don't contain any processed anything (pasta, bread, etc are all processed), and on high activity days I'll have snacks between meals that are hardly every processed either. I'm much happier and healthier now with more energy, especially early in the morning.
kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608
Phil Esra wrote:I wondered if being slightly calorie-negative would affect performance over a day of multiple redpoint burns...
If you believe being calorie-negative will affect your performance, then maybe it will. And if you're unaccustomed to climbing hard while calorie-negative, then likely it will affect -- because your unconscious neuro-muscular control module will detect that something is "different from normal", and conservatively restrict your performance intensity-range "envelope".

I remember the first time I started doing hard uphill running workouts first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. First couple of times it felt horrible. To be "fair" with myself I kept separate records of my uphill speed with and without a morning snack beforehand. But soon there was no difference in speed whether "calorie negative" or not.

Apart from peaking for redpoints ...
something that can help with losing / maintaining lower body-weight is to get over the myth that ingesting calories before or during exercise is important (for non-racers anyway).

Ken
Phil Esra · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 100

Interesting stuff. Thanks, both of you.

Bapgar 1 · · Out of the Loop · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 90
kenr wrote: your unconscious neuro-muscular control module
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about?
Kelly P · · The Bubble, CO · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 10

Hey guys!

Interestingly I am studying Sports Nutrition to complement my already completed Biology degree and I am VERY interested to how nutrition impacts climbing performance. I have been climbing on and off for about 16 years now, and seriously probably for the past two years. I would echo what Ryan stated, if you clean up your diet you will feel worlds better just all around. That is not to say you eat like crap, but most of us do eat some things we know we can and probably should cut out to operate at peak form(I am looking at you pint of Ben and Jerrys...). Another thing rarely mentioned for some reason is hydration. Even slight dehydration can cause a decrease in muscle function, and if you are already thirsty you are already dehydrated.

Do make sure you do eat ENOUGH though, I have found my energy stores get depleted quickly on long approaches, hot sun, and intense effort(go figure right?). Fruit is super helpful(Bananas, mmm carbs...) as are those Clif ShotBlocs for something super easy and portable.

I would be interested to hear other people's personal input on this, as over and over I find sports nutrition to be super individual :)

Good Luck!

Eric Chabot · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 45

kenr wrote:
your unconscious neuro-muscular control module

Brent Apgar wrote: I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about?


gotta keep krang happy if you wanna send hard
Bapgar 1 · · Out of the Loop · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 90

Thanks for clearing that up Eric.
It makes perfect sense now.

Phil Esra · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 100
Brent Apgar wrote:Thanks for clearing that up Eric. It makes perfect sense now.
It is vastly more complex than I would have imagined, but I appreciate the fact that it can be distilled into an inscrutable cartoon image.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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