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liability insurance

Original Post
JaneMcClane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 0

So I've been climbing for a couple years now and have mostly relied on others for opportunities to climb. I have experience in setting up top rope routes but was reluctant to do so at first as I am a very cautious person. I have gotten to the point where I feel I have enough experience to do so safely and confidently and now I wish to branch out on my own a bit. However, I don't want to have someone on my rope while I am uninsured.

I've spent hours talking to representatives and no one seems to be able to point me in the right direction for liability protection. Most policies that exist seem to be specifically for climbing gyms and guides and would require me to have a business. All the climbers I've talked to seem to have the "lets don't and say we did" attitude... someone out there has to have something... Any tips would be helpful. I'm just trying to be smart about all this.

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

Sounds way too paranoid to me. Just don't be a dangerous climbing partner. Have you heard of anyone being successfully sued in a climbing accident situation who wasn't grossly negligent? At a certain point you have to say enough is enough with being scared to death by insurance companies to live life.

Toni Stey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 60

I'm assuming you mean liability in case of an accident where someone you're climbing with gets hurt? Umbrella insurance should cover you (though make sure to read the policy). Talk to whoever does your auto/home owners insurance.

Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155

If you feel like you need liability insurance to set up a top rope, you probably shouldn't be setting up a top rope.

JaneMcClane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 0
M Sprague wrote:Sounds way too paranoid to me. Just don't be a dangerous climbing partner. Have you heard of anyone being successfully sued in a climbing accident situation who wasn't grossly negligent? At a certain point you have to say enough is enough with being scared to death by insurance companies to live life.
The problem is that we share the area very closely with hikers who don't always follow our requests to give us a wide berth. Also, our area is primarily sandstone and pieces occasionally break off in our hands. I can just picture someone getting bonked on the head for getting too close and I as the one who set up the gear finding my butt in court. I trust the climbers I'm with... it's everyone else I'm worried about.

People don't have to be in the right to sue you. You can win the case and still be devastated by court costs...
JaneMcClane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 0
mrnutty wrote:I'm assuming you mean liability in case of an accident where someone you're climbing with gets hurt? Umbrella insurance should cover you (though make sure to read the policy). Talk to whoever does your auto/home owners insurance.
I did... unfortunately rock climbers aren't very common in my area. My representative just gave me a slow blink and stared in confusion. She then stated that she didn't think it covered that... I'm not sure what I was supposed to get out of that, but I'm starting to suspect she just didn't know the answer.
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

If at all possible, I would try to find a better climbing location, without a bunch of hikers below. Are there no better locations in your area further from the crowds of hikers?

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60
M Sprague wrote:...Have you heard of anyone being successfully sued in a climbing accident situation who wasn't grossly negligent? At a certain point you have to say enough is enough with being scared to death by insurance companies to live life.
I am pretty sure that this is a troll. I mean, insurance? Really?

On the outside chance that this is a legit inquiry, I agree 100% with the post quoted above. I have never heard of an individual getting sued for a climbing accidenet. I am not saying that it doesn't happen, but it really is not at all common. IMHO, if you are that worried about having an accident and getting sued, you should probably stick to using a guide. IF you really want to understand your liability, you should consult a lawyer.
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

lol, a lawyer will probably freak you out with every scenario and tell you to stay in bed with 15 policies, then charge you $20k for the advice.

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

LOL! True that!

jmeizis · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 230

Even if you find a liability policy that covers non-commercial climbing it's probably going to cost more than hiring a guide and going climbing with them somewhere else. That doesn't address the fact that you're very unlikely to be sued for a climbing accident. Assumed risk and all that.

Martin le Roux · · Superior, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 401

If you've got homeowners or renters insurance that almost always includes personal liability coverage. If you accidentally cause injury to someone else then that should cover you, unless you're running a guiding business or it's an auto accident (in which case you're covered by auto insurance). You're covered even if the accident wasn't at your home. It'll also cover your legal defence costs. Coverage is typically $100k. You shouldn't have difficulty buying addiitional liability coverage if your personal net worth is more than that.

I agree that it's very rare for recreational climbers to be sued, but I think there's been at least one case where someone died in a climbing accident and his relatives sued his climbing partner.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Have your friends all sign a waiver before you set up the ropes. Problem solved. :)

Once you do that, you can come back to MP and ask about TR soloing. Because you won't have any partners.

Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155
Martin le Roux wrote:I agree that it's very rare for recreational climbers to be sued, but I think there's been at least one case where someone died in a climbing accident and his relatives sued his climbing partner.
Source? I'd assume that for such a lawsuit to be considered the plaintiff would need to prove some sort of negligence was in play. And if there was negligence involved then you deserve to be sued anyways.
Martin le Roux · · Superior, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 401
Ian Stewart wrote:Source?
I misremembered, it was an injury, not a fatality.

canyoncollective.com/thread…
Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155
Martin le Roux wrote:I misremembered, it was an injury, not a fatality. canyoncollective.com/thread…
Thanks. And yes, they're definitely claiming some negligence there:

"Stinson secured nylon climbing webbing, similar to a flat rope, to the top of the rock, but improperly attached that webbing to the nylon rope holding Enloe, the suit alleges. The rope rubbed against the webbing, breaking it and sending Enloe to the ground, the suit said."
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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