How many ropes & what size for a solo wall?

My original thoughts were:

1st dynamic / lead line - Blue Water Acclerator 10.5
2nd dynamic/ tag line - 7 or 8mm, no specific rope
3rd static / haul line - B/W Big Wall 10.3mm or B/W Haul Line, 9.5mm

After reading about rockfall chopping lines, and core shots etc, I'm thinking I need to bring a spare lead line. I liked MHudon's idea of using a kleimheist on the haul to tag up extra gear mid-pitch, and I can thus eliminate a tag line.

The ropes I own are:
dynamic, B/W Accelerator 10.5, 2 y.o.
static / haul B/W IIplus, 2 y.o.

Any input from big wall solo artists would be much appreciated. Other possibly useful information - When I'm in shape, I weigh about 185; and I absolutely loved the characteristics of my old single pic B/W Enduro. It was slithery, soft, and took a knot like a dream.

Just curious what wall are you planning on doing and how much rope soloing experience you have? What device are you using?

As long as the ropes you listed as having are in decent shape they will be fine. No need to get a 3rd rope.

Your lead line should be fine. I don't use a tag line at all because I would seldom use it and it's one more rope to coil at every belay. I just carry the whole rack with me the entire time when I solo. As for a haul line, I like using another lead line. The amount of stretch you're going to get while hauling is negligible and you have a backup lead line in case your primary lead line gets core-shot.

I'd recommend you try to keep it as simple and efficient as possible. Soloing is already enough work and coiling 3 ropes every pitch sucks!

Good luck out there!

I agree with Ryan. I use dynamics only, including to haul. If your lead rope gets the chop, a dynamic haul line could save you. I also never took a tag line and just grunt up with the whole rack. I like fat 11mms. I would highly consider a 3rd lead rope (to keep in the pig) just in case something weird happens; you never want to get stranded; you need to be self-reliant and more conservative when soloing. Also don't forget a lower out rope when cleaning traverses and cutting loose the pig.

I've yet to find a need for a tagline while soloing (except if the route needs a long lowerout line) since I climb mostly aid-intensive walls and don't need to worry about the weight of bringing the entire needed rack with me on each pitch. Solo-tagging is a pain anyways and most of the time, you're looking at 30-45 minutes of futzing about with pulling the gear up, restacking the rope on the new tag anchor, and continuing on. Even if you MUST solo-tag, if you're using a continuous loop system, your haul line will be tied to the end of your lead line and it's easy to add a loop to the connection knot and use that as the point to which you attach your solo-tag bag.

You don't need to worry that much about a core shot in your lead line requiring a backup lead line. If you get a core shot in the line, just isolate it with a butterfly knot and keep going. Since the lead line stays in place and doesn't move through the pieces of protection like it does in partnered climbing, there's no need to worry about the knot getting stuck at a piece like it would in partnered climbing. (There's a slight issue with the distance between the knot and the next piece jamming in a fall and essentially reducing the amount of rope stretch in the system, thus causing a higher fall factor, but if you're aware of this, you can mitigate the issues on a case-by-case basis.)

If your route requires double rope raps to descend and you have a butterfly knot isolating a core shot, you'll need to know how to rap using a biner-block (reepschnur) in order to single-line rap the non-coreshoted rope. Plenty of threads online, on MP and on ST cover this technique. Do not try this in the field without understanding the safety limitations and practicing it before you've got a heavy pig in tow.

Two ropes. Your lead line and a static haul line are perfect for an El Cap solo, and the other often done Yosemite walls. If you get too far off the beaten path, a second lead line might be a good idea. Kevin's idea about dealing with a core shot (above) is very good. (that's also a bit of the problem solving skills you should have to solo a wall too, imho)

In my last 10 El Cap routes, all done with 70 meter lead and haul lines, only on Native Son did I need a haul line extension, and even then only for one pitch. You can always pull the slack out of the haul line and lower the bags on the remainder.

The Continuous Loop Method that I use is really slick but requires vigilance and takes a bit of time to use. It's slick in that you never have to worry about starting up a pitch without the perfect rack since you can always tag it up. It's drawback is that you have to tag at least once per pitch regardless of needing gear or not.

If you stayed aware of the pitch you were on and decided you need or might need more gear, you could set up a mini anchor and rap down your haul line to get it. If you didn't like your options for a mini anchor you would be out of luck.

Still though, gear these days is light and topos are pretty good. I'll bet that 99% of the time you could load up with the recommended rack for the pitch and not need anything. In my three El Cap solos, 60+ pitches, I have needed to tag to get gear probably twice.

I have at least one more El Cap solo in me and I'm thinking that I won't tag anything more than the Haul kit.

If you end up using a 2:1 hauling ratchet, you won't even need to bring up the haul kit at the end of the pitch. Just rap off the knot at the anchor and bring the haul kit up with the rest of your cleaning gear. Then when back at the top anchor you can easily place the hauling pulley onto the weighted haul line while holding slack in place with the "Z cord"

True, you don't need it up there till you're ready to use it! I'll just tie the top end of the lead line to the top of the haul line and that'll be it!.

Ok,
replies all round:
- Will - New route in the PNW. About a hundred routes rope-soloed, more than 70 were free climbs, the rest have been aid. 80% one pitch. My old system stank, so I'm trying out new systems, and I currently use a Solo-Aid.

-Ryan - Thanks. Newer ropes may work to haul. Most of my climbing was on a B/W Enduro, back when they were mushy, and stretchy. I'm going to test haul a couple hundred pounds of water on each, and see which I like better. If the lead line isn't too elastic, I'll leave static behind for the wall, and take two dynamics.

- Bargain - Good to hear someone else likes the 11s. Conservative is what 11s are about, as well as a third rope. There is no possibility of rescue, so if a third rope is what gets me off the wall one way or the other, that's the ticket.

- Kevin - Sounds like solo-tagging is so awful that I'll have to try it to get it out of my system. I'm slow enough without an extra 45 min/ pitch of futzing. I've read Pete's stuff about continuous loop, and have his drawing. It makes no sense, and appears hyper-complex, which means I need to take the drawing out to my practice spot, and see if actually getting my hands on it helps. I have a tendency to prefer extra work to extra complexity. Thank you for pointing out the "non passage" of the soloist's rope through gear, that makes it a lot easier mentally to deal with a core shot rope. The biner block I can do, but it's been a while. Time to practice another technique.

Ah, Mark,
you got in there while I was still writing my response. Sounds like 2 dynamic leads and a static is the way to go; I can use a lead line to lower out a bag, but using what would normally be a dedicated lower out/ tag (7mm? 8?) I wouldn'tchoose to lead with. I'll be off the beaten path, so conservatism is good. As I wrote above, continuous loop makes no sense to me (yet) so that's another system I have to try. I remember Pete Takeda saying that the problem with soloing was that you ended up doing every pitch three times - lead it, rappel it, clean it, which actually struck me as pretty simple, if labor intensive.

That one popular drawing of Pete's method is actually not the method I use. That is a method to rap and haul one bag at the same time and have it all connected. It a way cool system but really too complicated to be useful.

My system is really not that bad.

In a nutshell:

When you are soloing, the lead rope does not move through the carabiners like if you were leading with a partner. You essentially start at the bottom of the lead rope and slide you self belay device up the rope till you get to the top of the pitch.

The top end of your lead rope is tied to the top end of your haul rope. At that junction is your tag bag. Your tag bag is hung via a Petzl Fifi (this is important) to the anchor and safetied with the Slippery Knot.

When you need gear, you pull up your lead rope, pull the tag bag off the anchor, and up to you. You grab the gear you need and hang and re-tie the Slippery knot and move on.

Once you get to the top anchor, you again pull up the tag bag, along with the haul line. Hang the tag bag on the anchor and get it ready for the next pitch. Secure the haul line to the anchor and then rap it back down to the lower anchor. Shorten up the haul line, lower out the bags and start cleaning the pitch.

On Native Son we had a 40 piece of 8 mil to lower out the bag. Even on the most traversing route on all of El Cap, aside from the Girdle Traverse, Iron Hawk, I did not need a lower out line.

Good morning Mark! you're up early. I need to google up that Slippery Knot, sounds handy.

Yeah, the kids next door are having a campout and got me up. No biggie, I'm drinking coffee and working on a Reticent TR.

Here is a link to my Slippery Knot vid.

youtube.com/watch?v=dwWnye2…

" I'm drinking coffee and working on a Reticent TR."

I CANT WAIT MARK!!! Write faster :)

I like kevins thing about if your rope gets core shot... seems great for partnerd climbs too if your rope gets shot and you only have 1 lead line!

Read again Mickey! Only works when soloing. If you climb with a partner then normal belaying won't allow you to isolate a core shot in the lead line with a butterfly... Unless... You are climbing with a partner and get a core shit and from that point on whoever is leading essentially soloes each pitch while the partner sits there twiddling their thumbs (or drinking more likely)

That's what I ment Kevin... It would be boring for the person sitting around but better then jugging a core shot! Also, "soloing" with a partner would be cool to limit rope drag on some pitches...

Soloing a hooking pitch is actually safer than being partner belayed because you can prussic a hook down against the bottom anchor.

Jugging a core shit rope is fine if you isolate the core shit in a butterfly because passing the knot is easy, rapping past it sucks a bit more (sucking meaning takes an extra minute to pass the knot with your ascenders.)

So Mark,
I basically get the soloist's lead rope unfolds upward like a shirt sleeve... but there's something's been bugging me, that you wrote in a previous post "when soloing, you're never really tied in to the lead line...". In your system, is your connection to the rope only through the belay device? Thus allowing you to tie the end of the lead and haul lines together?

In the system I'm using, I'm tied in to the sharp end, and have either a hanging loop or rope bag. The haul is clipped to the back of my harness. Having done only one pitch aid routes so far, and not really needing to haul, I've stopped to set up a haul anchor just for the practice. Which leads to another question:

- what tool is everyone using for hauls... and how much weight are you typically hauling? The weight rating on the R/E Wall Hauler makes me think it's a bit iffy for most walls.

. "...Secure the haul line to the anchor and then rap it back down to the lower anchor. Shorten up the haul line, lower out the bags and start cleaning the pitch." Sounds standard, except for shortening the haul line. I'm guessing you don't pull up the slack in the haul to allow the slack to be used to lower out the bag?

Just curious - does anyone ever clean on rappel? At first glance, it seems a moot point whether to clean on the jug on during the rap.

Yes, you are never tied into the end of the rope. In your method, at best, you would have that giant loop of rope in a rope bag down at the anchor. (That poses a problem though, how do you flake the rope into the bag so that the loop of it comes out, smoothly and untangled?) Eventually, the whole remainder of the lead line would be hanging from your waist, along with the haul line.

You are attached to the rope with your solo belay device (get a Silent Partner) in addition to your back up knot. When you rappel you are not tied into a rope and when you are cleaning you have your back up knot and really have no need to tie directly in.

Don't forget, if the ropes get tangled in the wind or stuck on a crack or wrapped around a flake, there is no one to help you out to fix it, there is no one to watch the ropes. It's only you.

With my technique, you have one rope leading up to you from the anchor and one rope (the same rope) going back down to the anchor, nicely nested in a rope bag. When you are further out than half way, you start to pull the haul line out of its rope bag.

When you get to the top anchor, you anchor the lead rope right there, not at the end of the rope. You attach the haul line to the anchor, rap it and clean the lower anchor. In rare, rare cases will you be able to clean on rappel, but really, why? (unless you are speed soloing, Cheyne cleans on rappel on his solos but he takes only one rope.) It's far, far easier and probably faster to clean normally.

You could shorten the haul line up before you leave the upper anchor but you would still have to shorten it a little bit further when you release it from the lower anchor. You have to get it off the anchor don't you?
With my technique of always having a Micro-Trax to attach the haul bags to the haul rope, you have a built in 2:1 right there. I'l run the rope up to a biner on the anchor, pump out the slack with a jug, safety the Micro-Trax and cut the bags loose. Lowering them on the remainder of the rope or simply cutting them loose if they will go out into space.

Micro-Trax/Haul bag attachment.

I haul 2:1. I have it wired and it takes hauling off the table as far as wall suffering goes. Here is a photo of my kit. Just go out and buy exactly what I have. You won't make any significant improvements in the system. Saving money by buying smaller, less efficient pulleys is going to cost you more effort. This kit is one reason why me, at 58 years old, can climb multiple El Cap routes in one season.

Haul Kit

Pretty much, for a five day, Zodiac solo, you're going to be hauling right around 200 pounds.

Thanks,
I was much more inclined to use bigger pulleys, and my Jumars rather than go smaller. I have a construction background, so I'm more inclined to use equipment than to muscle a heavy weight - moving weights at work means we have to do it again the next day, and the next, and I like to try to leave some gas in my tank.

I see your rig uses a couple of pulleys, the Mini-Trax, and a small ascender.

I'll figure out the set up first, with what I have, and once I've learned how it works I'll spend the cash.

Do you use the Mini-Trax as your final haul device? Or is it only used to get the bags off the anchor?

Bigger pulleys are good but also heavier.

No, that Micro-Trax stays there the whole time. With it there, another little thing you won't have to waste valuable strength on, is untying that dead tight, cinched up knot that most people use to attach their haul lines to their bags.