Ideal length of cordellete

Anyone have any opinions on what a good length is for cordelletes? Or should a guy carry a couple at different lengths?

Mine is the ideal length: 19.625 feet. An eighth of an inch more or less is not ideal. ;-)

There is no ideal length. There is more like a sweet spot for each person. Do you normally use three pieces? Do you normally use four pieces? Do you normally have a dedicated piece for upward pull? And on those occasions when it is too short, are you good with including a sling to make up for it?

Perhaps make a guess? Try it out for a few weeks.

18-20 feet of cord for all-around use.

70 meters

I've found that the sweet spot is somewhere between 16 and 20 feet, depending on where you're climbing.

Leaving aside the question of personal likes and rock type, the width of cord makes a massive difference to the distance one can reach with a cordelette. 20ft of 5.5. spectra will have much less in the knot than 7mm cord. As does whether you have tied the thing in a loop, or kept it as a single strand with figure eights in the ends.

Take a look at the photos at

multipitchclimbing.com/

goto chapter 6, section 4 and scroll down to "The cordelette conundrum". The photo shows that with 4 pieces and 7mm, more cord is in the knot than going to the pieces.

The only time I take a cordelette with me is when I expect to be doing most of the leading. But then I commit something of a heresy: I dislike bundling it up and carrying it on my harness. One reason is that I think the process of undoing and redoing it wastes time. So my cordelette length is determined to be the loop size which, when folded in half twice, comes out to about the length of an ordinary shoulder-length sling, and that's how I carry it. I guess that makes it about an eight-foot loop when it has been tied, which probably comes out to a bit under twenty feet before knotting.

ideal length= 0ft

I made mine with 20 feet of 7mm cord. Remember you can always shorten it while climbing by clove hitching a section to a piece, tying off a knot or whatever the scenario entails. I've used this same cord to extend top rope anchors over edges too.

mpech wrote:ideal length= 0ft

+1

Thanks for all advice guys. For mpech and Bryan Gilmoe: do you just always use the rope--no matter what? I'm terribly new to the trad game and am honestly seeking good advice here. And I really like the idea of being able to use just the rope, its just the cordelette seems to make more sense. But if rope is the way to go, I want to know.

Ross Moslander wrote:Thanks for all advice guys. For mpech and Bryan Gilmoe: do you just always use the rope--no matter what? I'm terribly new to the trad game and am honestly seeking good advice here. And I really like the idea of being able to use just the rope, its just the cordelette seems to make more sense. But if rope is the way to go, I want to know.

Using a cordellete is not "wrong," inefficient or a sign of a rookie (even though some people will tell you it is). If you want to use the rope to anchor in, that's fine, too. If you are on a multipitch and are not swapping leads, you might find the cordellete easier.

I use 20ft of 6mm nylon. Works well for me for 3 piece anchors, don't believe I've needed to extend a leg with a sling yet (relatively new to trad). I've had to partially deconstruct a rope anchor to give the leader enough rope to finish the pitch, so unless you know the pitches are short enough consider cordelette instead.

Ross, the answer really isn't clear-cut and involves healthy doses of situational relevance and personal preference. There are certainly cases in which having a cordelette simplifies matters, but in many situations it is really just extra baggage. David Coley, who just posted above, has a book and website multipitchclimbing.com with Andy Kirkpatrick which, among other things, thoroughly considers all the possibilities, and does so from an international perspective that circumvents various American biases and blind spots. Amazon has the kindle version of the book and there is also an iBook version---see the website above for links.

I think cordelettes became perhaps overly popular, primarily in the US, because guides use them (they make sense for guided climbs) and guides teach them, and so it is all a lot of people know. But what is best for guided situations and easiest for a guide to teach isn't necessarily the most effective for climbing in general.

My suggestion is to read Kirkpatrick and Coley, listen to the various informed and uninformed opinions you'll get here, try out various options for yourself, and arrive at your own conclusions, which if you are reasonably intelligent are probably going to end up being, "it depends." But whatever you decide, you should certainly be competent at setting up anchors without a cordelette in case circumstances force this option on you.

My Cordellette finds most of its use a sacrificial source of rope to renew rap anchors and the such.

Good suggetions by a lot of people use the rope as an anchor. I haven't perfected or timed myself making an anchor with a rope vs a cordalette, but I assume using both is just as quick if you are proficient in both ways. Keep in mind that a lot of multipitch trad routes can be easily linked using longer ropes like a 70m and barely reach anchor to anchor. I know a few routes I've recently have done were the case, and if I used the rope as an anchor my partner or myself wouldn't have been able to link so called pitches on those routes.

mpech wrote:ideal length= 0ft

That's what she said

Knowing how to use the rope as an anchor is a key tool, especially if you're a numb nut like me and forget stuff in the car. But if you aren't swinging leads or if something goes wrong, having to reconstruct the anchor before proceeding can be a hassle. Having separate rope and anchor systems can also go a long way to declutter belays.

Having posted my best attempt at objectivity above, my personal take is that cordelettes are rarely better than just using the rope. Some (but not all) big-wall climbers swear by them for reducing clutter. Some people think they make leading in blocks more efficient, although there is in reality only a very small time differential if the second carries their own anchoring carabiners. Cordelettes are certainly convenient although hardly necessary for guiding, and they can be very helpful in self-rescue situations as well as providing a useful source of rappel material in case an unanticipated descent is called for.

On the other hand, my fairly substantial if still utterly unscientific observation is that inexperienced and some not-so-inexperienced climbers can suffer from cordelette-induced tunnel vision, building an anchor that will accommodate the rather limited range of a cordelette rather than constructing the best available anchor, whose placements may be more far-flung.

As I said earlier, whether you ultimately decide you like the cordelette approach or not, you will in any case want to be able to anchor properly with just the rope.

I answered 0ft of cordalette being the right length, but I guess it's more complicated than that.

No cordelette if
1) most normal climbing situations
2) established rappels
3) bolted anchor cragging areas

cordalette might be useful if
1) need to rig complicated top rope setups (eg off of a tree far away from the edge of the cliff etc...)
2) going to burn through a lot of cord rapping somewhere new

Here's a good post that answers roughly 100% of all technical questions asked on mountainproject

blakeclimbs.blogspot.com/20…

cordelette works fine and are useful if you are doing most/all of the leading

they also work well if you believe you may need to leave cheap rap tat ... a you can chop it for that purpose

if you do use a cordelette for trad anchors 6-7 metres of 7mm is what i usually recommend for new climbers

this also works great for extending anchors over the edge when TRing

some readin from step davis blog on mammuts view or cord ....

highinfatuation.com/blog/co…

highinfatuation.com/blog/co…

also you can use a double EDK (overhand) to tie it ... its easier to tie and untie than a double fishies and perfectly acceptable

AMGA Single Pitch Manual

if you untie it, a cord can be quite flexible in terms of extended anchor configurations with multiple pieces

the thing to remember is that there are MANY ways to skin a cat ... except on MP where we think they only taste good BBQued !!!

;)