kids, helmets and USA sport climbing comp

My friend just posted photos of their children competing in the latest USA sport climbing comp. It just dawned on me that this professional organization doesn't require children or adults to wear helmets during competitions. I would think a professional org. would require this, especially for this type of sport that is advertised publicly. Thoughts?

No. Do you see gymnasts, pole vaulters or figure skaters wearing them? Figure skating actually seems more dangerous than sport climbing to me. Are they going to require mandatory helmets during school hours next, in case a student falls down the stairs or slips in the hall?

M Sprague wrote:No. Do you see gymnasts, pole vaulters or figure skaters wearing them? Figure skating actually seems more dangerous than sport climbing to me. Are they going to require mandatory helmets during school hours next, in case a student falls down the stairs or slips in the hall?

I can see your point with the other sports, but I don't think comparing school kids to sport climbing fall in the same subject matter. I just thought about it because I've been seeing a lot more push for people to wear helmets, especially that recent thread where I guy said "my helmet saved my life today". Oh and I'm bored waiting around at work for things.

RNclimber wrote: especially that recent thread where I guy said "my helmet saved my life today".

Don't confuse the dogma of a few vocal gumbies w/ a trend...

Evidence seems to indicate that they aren't needed for these events.

reboot wrote: Don't confuse the dogma of a few vocal gumbies w/ a trend...

I don't get your comment. How are the "few vocal gumbies" preaching about wearing a helmet make them a gumby?

The nature of most sport climbing comps and the routes climbed means that the vast majority of falls are extremely safe. Even if a climber did invert it's pretty unlikely that they'd swing into anything given how steep the walls often are.

The recent focus on increased awareness of the danger/stupidity of not wearing a helmet is in the context of outdoor climbing (in 99% of the discussion, at least), where rock fall is a real possibility at almost any crag. Although I don't have any stats to back it up, I'd expect that it's a significantly more likely cause of injury and death than someone hitting their head on a lead fall.

Dan Austin wrote:The nature of most sport climbing comps and the routes climbed means that the vast majority of falls are extremely safe. Even if a climber did invert it's pretty unlikely that they'd swing into anything given how steep the walls often are. The recent focus on increased awareness of the danger/stupidity of not wearing a helmet is in the context of outdoor climbing (in 99% of the discussion, at least), where rock fall is a real possibility at almost any crag. Although I don't have any stats to back it up, I'd expect that it's a significantly more likely cause of injury and death than someone hitting their head on a lead fall.

Makes more sense. I don't know why I didn't think of it that way (regarding how routes are set and how inverted they are). I know bolted routes outdoors are designed to prevent injuries and hopefully less likely to get your foot caught behind ropes during traverses and/or over hangs/pulling lips of a roof. I've noticed, especially in my gym, that some new routes that are set aren't really well protected by the fixed bolts aleady in the wall. Once in a while a route would traverse left or right and because the way the bolts are already fixed, rope management is a struggle to not get your foot stuck behind the rope during the moves. This could be because of in-experienced setters not seeing the potential of this happening. I'm sure setters for these comps make every fall very reasonable and make it unlikely for the leader to swing into anything or flip upside down.

Having competed in many years of all levels of youth competition, I can assure you there is absolutely no need to bring helmets into these competitions. Not once have I ever seen any fall remotely dangerous to the head and given that this is a controlled, indoor sport, there is no risk of rockfall.

Alex McIntyre wrote:Having competed in many years of all levels of youth competition, I can assure you there is absolutely no need to bring helmets into these competitions. Not once have I ever seen any fall remotely dangerous to the head and given that this is a controlled, indoor sport, there is no risk of rockfall.

Off course I wasn't thinking of rock fall, just the potential for a lead fall to swing upside down and hitting there head. I've seen it plenty of times in the gym.

RNclimber wrote: Off course I wasn't thinking of rock fall, just the potential for a lead fall to swing upside down and hitting there head. I've seen it plenty of times in the gym.

That just does not happen in sport climbing competition. There is a premium placed on soft catches and avoidance of short-roping, so much so that a lot of falls you take at regional and higher level comps are seamlessly transitioned into a speedy lower to the floor. Again, in my several years-worth of experience competing in and spectating youth and adult sport climbing competitions, I have never seen nor heard of anyone coming even remotely close to suffering any sort of head injury. The younger kids toprope and the kids old enough to lead do so on almost exclusively very steep walls.

sasha digulian flipping over in south africa sport climbing

youtube.com/watch?v=kkxatEi…

kelly cordes flipping and bashing his head sport climbing ...

kellycordes.wordpress.com/2…

even the highly experienced beth rodden on moderate ground ...

One of the first cracks I climbed on my Yosemite quest was Central Pillar of Frenzy on Middle Cathedral. It was a Saturday, so my partner and I were rushing to beat the crowds. Surprisingly, when we arrived at 9 a.m., we were the first party. I took the first lead and found incredible climbing on polished granite, but just below the first anchors, my foot unexpectedly popped and I fell, flipping upside down in the corner and hit my head. It was without a doubt the worst lead fall I’ve ever taken. At first all I wanted to do was flip right side up. I didn’t really notice anything in particular that was hurt right off the bat, but I lowered to the ground only to find a bloody shoulder and elbow. ‘Crap, again! I wrenched my shoulder again!’ I thought. I was embarrassed, scared, and just wanted to get back to the car. We packed up and regrouped. After a bit of food we went on to crag somewhere else, but I was pretty shaken up.

A few days later I noticed that I couldn't concentrate on things properly and I felt a bit dizzy and nauseous. I started researching and thought I might have a concussion. I didn't think I hit my head that hard, but I don't really remember the fall, just that I had a lump on the front and back of my head. I called up my friend and ER doctor Noah Kauffman, and he thought the same thing. And so, 16 years after I started climbing, I learned a very valuable lesson on helmets.

petzl.com/us/outdoor/news-2…

if this can happen to these top climbers, it can happen to you

as to indoors ... as said generally the ground is steeper indoors, its better bolted, there arent ledges to swing into and there aint rockfall

flipping, while less common in sport and to experienced climbers, still happens ... and it takes one bad flipper that whacks your head to have problems

bearbreeder wrote:kelly cordes flipping and bashing his head sport climbing ...

From the blog you linked: I’ll bet the “if you’d have worn a helmet” thing is, maybe, what? one in 10,000 with this scenario? Seriously, just stay inside. No, for real, stay on the couch and watch TV. Nothing will hurt you there...I don’t want to be defensive, but I also hate how anytime there’s an accident, every douchebag in the universe tries to jump to one single thing that would magically be the panacea for all evils, accidents, and tragedies in the universe (and such reactions often seem suspiciously close to the shallow self-justification of “Well, you wouldn’t catch me don’t that” – yes, you’re right, we wouldn’t, because you were inside on the couch).

Funny that the only time I banged my head (mostly absorbed by the shoulder) is sport climbing at Wizard's Gate, on a consistent 30-40 degree overhang face), although from the description it doesn't appear to be the same (point of the) route.

i guess if someone fell in a comp and flipped upside down maybe the belayer would reflexively lower them so fast that they'd land head first? helmets in comps not such a bad idea after all

reboot wrote: From the blog you linked: I’ll bet the “if you’d have worn a helmet” thing is, maybe, what? one in 10,000 with this scenario? Seriously, just stay inside. No, for real, stay on the couch and watch TV. Nothing will hurt you there...I don’t want to be defensive, but I also hate how anytime there’s an accident, every douchebag in the universe tries to jump to one single thing that would magically be the panacea for all evils, accidents, and tragedies in the universe (and such reactions often seem suspiciously close to the shallow self-justification of “Well, you wouldn’t catch me don’t that” – yes, you’re right, we wouldn’t, because you were inside on the couch). Funny that the only time I banged my head (mostly absorbed by the shoulder) is sport climbing at Wizard's Gate, on a consistent 30-40 degree overhang face), although from the description it doesn't appear to be the same (point of the) route.

also from the blog post

My new helmet: Trango Skull Cap.
So, here’s my pitch for super light, low-bulk helmets. Because you’re more likely to wear them. I have a Petzl Meteor 2, but it’s significantly bulkier than their original one, and I don’t wear it that often. Pathetic of me, I know. I also know of zero people who’ve had head injuries from leading sport routes without a helmet. So forgive me. And, still, it damned near happened to me. Allow my dumb ass to provide the example: If it’s light enough, and low-bulk enough, maybe I’ll wear it. Just for those outlier instances – like last Tuesday. I’m glad it wasn’t worse, I’m glad I’m not drooling on myself, and I’m glad to get back out there doing what I love. Thank you, Malcolm Daly – a longtime pal and badass climber, who works at Trango – for the helmet. It weighs nothing and it’s super low-bulk. I’m hoping it’ll help keep me going, loving life, for as long as I can do it.

whether you wear a helmet is between your and your partner ...

however head injuries, even if just from rockfall, are one of the more serious injuries and not that uncommon ... even cragging especially in the canadian rockies where theres mountain goats and chossy limestone

look at the base of the climb and look at the all the rocks there at the base ... then make a decision ... those rocks care from somewhere

and contrary to popular belief some helmets are designed with more protection in case you whack your head on the rock ... it would prevent those bleeding flesh scalp wound if nothing else