Bad belayer - should I have told him?

While at a local climbing gym, I saw a person with a bad belaying technique.
His hand was basically letting go of the rope after pulling slack for a brief moment.
It looked dangerous to me. I considered telling that person that his technique could result in someone taking a bad fall. However, after thinking about it, I decided not to.

What's the general etiquette for such situations? It'd be terrible if someone actually did have an accident (when that person was belaying) and I could have prevented it (possibly).

Confused..

I'd imagine that quite a few people (myself included) have been in a similar situation....but here's what I'd do.

Give any of the staff a heads up (since they could ultimately get in trouble if anything were to happen) and let them be the one to correct improper/unsafe technique. I've definitely felt uncomfortable saying something as well.

I agree with Chris, it is the gyms responsibility to make sure their custumers are educated and prepared before using the facility. By letting the staff communicate with the belayer, it shows that its the rules of the gym and not just a climbers opinion.
Good Luck!

In a gym setting, you need to bring it to the attention of the staff. It's likely that they are doing a poor job of evaluating people whom they let climb. Emphasize that this is not OK with you. No one wants to witness an ankle shattering or even deadly fall.

If you are outside, it's a different story. I used to try and help, and sometimes i still do. But I see/saw it so often in Thailand and the US that now I just look away, and try to get out of thr area if it seems like someone is going to get hurt. I know that seems terrible, but I decided one day that there are just too many gumbies out there for me to protect, and that I am better off just enjoying myself.

I rarely see anyone doing anything dangerous in the UK though. More slow bumlies who spend an entire afternoon on a two pitch route, but fewer untrained/dense gumbies who seem to have a death wish.

Let the Gym staff know.... its their ballgame.

In the great outdoors, I always go and quietly point out to the person doing the poor belaying and give them a clue... or to the ALPHA DOG who looks to be in charge of said group, "dude. that belayer over there is going to get somebody killed..."

If the "bad stuff" dosen't quit. I have been know to change my tactic and loudly proclaim, "heay this is to all of you,.... That person is doing it all wrong... ONE OF YOU could get hurt or killed and I don't wish to see another BODY CARRY OUT go down ......."

If you don't do this .... your part of the problem.

I realy don't care if other folks think im a dick... better than a DEAD BODY.

Ryan Williams wrote: But I see/saw it so often in Thailand and the US that now I just look away, and try to get out of thr area if it seems like someone is going to get hurt. I know that seems terrible, but I decided one day that there are just too many gumbies out there for me to protect, and that I am better off just enjoying myself.

I agree... and disagree.

If you don't say anything and there's an accident, can you walk away and still sleep at night? That's my worry, so I usually speak to them, although I've found that most gumbies reject the advice with vehemence.

After that, I can walk away from their accident and sleep soundly.

Guy Keesee wrote:Let the Gym staff know.... its their ballgame. In the great outdoors, I always go and quietly point out to the person doing the poor belaying and give them a clue... or to the ALPHA DOG who looks to be in charge of said group, "dude. that belayer over there is going to get somebody killed..." If the "bad stuff" dosen't quit. I have been know to change my tactic and loudly proclaim, "heay this is to all of you,.... That person is doing it all wrong... ONE OF YOU could get hurt or killed and I don't wish to see another BODY CARRY OUT go down ......." If you don't do this .... your part of the problem. I realy don't care if other folks think im a dick... better than a DEAD BODY.

I do something in this vein as well, although maybe without the loud part. As Guy says, on the one hand is ego, and on the other hand is someone's son/daughter/wife/husband/whatever ending up in the hospital or cemetery. If you would feel guilty after the fact for not speaking up, then speak up. In situations like this I get brushed off about 10% of the time and thanked profusely most of the rest of the time.

I remember one time this gal at Rumney got her hair caught in the ATC and she took both hands off the rope to free it...while her leader was right in the middle of the crux at the second bolt. She was extremely annoyed with me for telling her leader, "dude, clip in, you are not on belay", but I slept well that night.

If the person seems nice and you think you can tell them in a polite way, I'd say something. I was at a local crag with some friends recently and one of them told the guy next to us he was belaying wrong and explained how to do it better. She did it in a very polite manner and he was grateful for the tip, although slightly embarrassed I'm sure. It is nicer to hear a bit of advice from a peer than someone who works at the gym, in my opinion.

Outdoors I noticed what I thought was the belayer totally removing their hand from the brake strand. I mentioned something to him directly. He said nope my hand isn't coming off.

I resumed what ever I was doing and looked over again and saw it again but this time I was able to point it out in a way the belayer recognized. I am glad I said something.

I would do it again. I don't care about hurting some ones pride. I care about somebody getting hurt.

wankel7 wrote:Outdoors I noticed what I thought was the belayer totally removing their hand from the brake strand. I mentioned something to him directly. He said nope my hand isn't coming off. I resumed what ever I was doing and looked over again and saw it again but this time I was able to point it out in a way the belayer recognized. I am glad I said something. I would do it again. I don't care about hurting some ones pride. I care about somebody getting hurt.

BOOM. nicely put. be the bad guy, save a life/limb.

I always say something when there is a child involved or someone who is obviously new and trusting that their partner/leader knows how to keep them safe. Or if the potential accident could be fatal. Beyond that it's more of a judgment call based on the circumstances. One scary incident that comes to mind is a dad that was "belaying" his 11 year old son by wrapping the rope around his arm as his kid climbed higher. I immediately said something in the most polite, most urgent way I could - and he responded with a scornful look and said "Sweetie, you have NO idea how strong I am."

On the other hand, I've been on the receiving end of "you're being unsafe" advice when I wasn't. I'm talking about new climbers who think you're doing it wrong because you aren't doing it the way they learned.
I've been told I was in danger for not tying a "back-up" knot above my figure 8, for belaying with the PBUS method when they insisted I should be doing the slip slap slide like they were taught, my favorite may be when I was told it was dangerous to use the rope to anchor because I can't put a "magic X" in it like they do with their dyneema slings.

Just interesting to think that probably quite often the party on both ends of these conversations believes they are right. At the end of the day, all you can do is offer up the information and everyone is going to make their own choices.

I wish I could say 90% of people respond positively to this kind of unsolicited advice, but in my experience it's more likely to be the exact opposite. Maybe I'm not much of a diplomat/communicator lol

But there's definitely a point where excessive concern for other people's behavior and well-being can become pathological and detrimental to your own emotional health. That kind of emotional investment on my part is reserved for close family and friends.

These days, if somebody is at a high risk of imminent death, I'll say something no matter what.

If somebody has a small chance of getting a little banged up and they're at the crag in a brotastic group that's highly likely to respond negatively to being confronted, I might just figure they're the type of people who will probably only learn the hard way anyway.

A metaphor for this "be helpful to others vs excessive self-sacrifice" spectrum might be the following: I am happy to donate some of my income to charities. I don't feel emotionally obligated to give away everything I own and go live under the bridge.

There is no one right answer and everybody needs to figure out what works for them.

Yell up at the climber "Dude, your belayer keeps taking his hand off the rope" and walk away.

M Sprague wrote:Yell up at the climber "Dude, your belayer keeps taking his hand off the rope" and walk away.

I like this solutioon but would talk to the belayer first then if their technique didn't improve I would yell at the climber. Better to piss someone off then help with the rescue/recovery.

John Byrnes wrote: I agree... and disagree. If you don't say anything and there's an accident, can you walk away and still sleep at night? That's my worry, so I usually speak to them, although I've found that most gumbies reject the advice with vehemence. After that, I can walk away from their accident and sleep soundly.

I suppose you are right. We should all be OK with lending a helping hand. Never know when it may save someone's life.