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Difference between Alpine Climbing and Mountaineering?

Original Post
Jerel Lillywhite · · Astoria, OR · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 148

Hey all,

I have a questions that maybe is just semantics. Either way, I'd love some help. Question is, what is the difference between Alpine Climbing and Mountaineering? Or are they one in the same thing?

My copy of Freedom of the Hills says that, "Alpine rock climbing refers to routes farther from civilization that require many of the technical, physical, and mental aspects of rock climbing involved in sport and crag climbing, in addition to alpine route finding or glacier climbing skills and equipment. Alpine routes are almost never bolted." (Pg 1168 of 3382 on my phone...)

Does that mean that Alpine Climbing encompasses all climbing in the mountains that is technical or requires protection? And would Mountaineering therefore be non-technical climbing requiring no protection? If so, what is the difference between Hiking and Mountaineering? Or is Alpine Climbing a sub-category of Mountaineering? If it is, what is the larger, overall definition of Mountaineering, what are the other sub-categories that fit into it and where does Alpine Climbing relate to those?

I feel like there is probably an easy explanation to this but I've somehow missed it over the years. Anyway, I'd really appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks!

Creed Archibald · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,016

I think alpine rock climbing would be a sub-category of mountaineering involving some but certainly not all the moutaineers' skills.

Kris Holub · · Boulder, Colorado · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 70

Alpine climbing is climbing in an alpine environment. Take your particular brand of climbing: ice, mixed, rock, aid, etc and execute in the mountains. In addition to the technical skills of each discipline, you also add in factors unique to an alpine environment: weather, ice/snow, remoteness, long/strenuous approaches, altitude.

Mountaineering primarily focuses on the latter challenges with climbing itself as [usually] a smaller obstacle and more of a means to an end of finishing a route. The line between the two can be blurred at times, but it's reasonably accurate to say that mountaineering becomes alpine climbing when the technical difficulty of ascent becomes the crux of the route, as opposed to negotiating alpine elements.

Dave Bn · · Boise, ID · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10

^^^ that was like the fucking Mona Lisa of explanations. I'm getting teary-eyed.

Jerel Lillywhite · · Astoria, OR · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 148

Wow Kris, I really like what you said here:

"Mountaineering becomes alpine climbing when the technical difficulty of ascent becomes the crux of the route, as opposed to negotiating alpine elements."

I think that is the clearest distinction I've heard drawn between the two.

Would you say then that the Exum Ridge up the Grand Teton (16 or so pitches requiring some protection) is an Alpine Route and that the classic route up Mount Everest is a Mountaineering Route with the Hillary Step being the only largely technical part and not enough to classify the whole route as Alpine? (To use two well known routes for comparison).

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

I'll take a stab at the (slight) difference between the two:

Alpine climbing is in the mountains, whether there is snow or not. So alpine rock climbing is in the mountains, but you may never set foot on snow or ice.

Mountaineering involves some snow or ice, but not necessarily technical climbing. And is in the mountains.

Not much difference, in my opinion.

brent b · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 470

I didn't read the posts above me so I may simply be echoing others.

In my mind alpine climbing is a subset of mountaineering. Alpine climbing begins when you arms go above your head.

To say that mountaineering is "non-technical" is an over simplification. Technicality, like everything else, ranges a spectrum. Many "mountaineering" routes require glacier travel. Many would rope up and be prepared for a technical crevasse rescue on these glaciers, though maybe there is no pitched climbing throughout the entire route.

Kris Holub · · Boulder, Colorado · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 70
Jerel Lillywhite wrote:Would you say then that the Exum Ridge up the Grand Teton (16 or so pitches requiring some protection) is an Alpine Route and that the classic route up Mount Everest is a Mountaineering Route with the Hillary Step being the only largely technical part and not enough to classify the whole route as Alpine? (To use two well known routes for comparison).
The Exum ridge is definitely alpine rock, though if you were to attempt it in winter conditions it would become more of a mountaineering problem (particularly the upper half of the ridge which many people are comfortable soloing). The trade routes on Everest are certainly mountaineering, which has it's own subsets:

Expedition "siege" mountaineering - Where numerous trips are made to stock camps, fix lines, usually involves massive teams to get a few people to the top. It's a massive logistical project and the vast majority of people who climb Everest are doing it this way.

Alpine-style - The goal is to be self-sufficient and go for the summit in a single push aka "fast and light". Basically all mountaineering in the lower 48 is this type.

Hiking - Easy mountaineering where the crux is the physical exertion of walking around, rather than technical skills of moving through ice/snow/glaciated terrain.
Jerel Lillywhite · · Astoria, OR · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 148

Kris, that makes good sense. Thanks man. Again, I know that there can't be black and white distinctions where one discipline ends and the other begins but that clears things up a lot and seems like it could help offer more clarity in climbing conversations.

Ryan Kempf · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 371
Dave Bn wrote:^^^ that was like the fucking Mona Lisa of explanations. I'm getting teary-eyed.
Jerel Lillywhite wrote:Kris, that makes good sense. Thanks man. Again, I know that there can't be black and white distinctions where one discipline ends and the other begins but that clears things up a lot and seems like it could help offer more clarity in climbing conversations.
People getting along on MP? Not talking shit? Actually being helpful? I feel a setup coming on...
Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989

Mountaineering: slow walking uphill while not feeling very well.
Also, walking up the back side.

In all seriousness, I think Kris' explanation wins. Mountaineering becomes alpine climbing when technical difficulty trumps objective hazards as the crux of the experience.

Wyatt H · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 6

It seems like people use the term mountaineering in two different ways. The first sense of the word would be the "Freedom of the Hills" more general sense for the discipline of simply climbing mountains. So any or all of hiking, scrambling, peak bagging, snow walking, glacier hiking, ice climbing, rock climbing, big wall climbing, aid climbing, etc. The second and more common use and the way it is often connotated seems to be climbing primarily high elevation snow, glacier, or ice routes with a traditional ice axe and crampons. As stated before, it is not often considered to be very technical though sometimes the more technical two ice tool climbing is included. In a sense, the second definition is a subset of the first, which is confusing, but its easy to see how it happened - the old-school mountaineers who were climbing the high peaks climbed this way, so what else were people going to call this genre of climbing?

The term "alpine climbing" is also used in all kinds of different ways depending on the situation and interpretation. Alpine climbing could refer to climbing in the Alps, or climbing like is done in the Alps. It could mean climbing above the treeline in the "Alpine zone". Based on these things, people stretched alpine climbing to mean climbing in remote mountains, climbing at high elevation, climbing where the routes or rock has not been very "developed" so could just mean climbing rock that is loose and scary or maybe snowy or iced up. To confuse matters, it could also be climbing using "alpine style" of single push climbing rather than "siege" or "capsule style" methods of climbing long routes. So nowadays it seems the most common use of the term alpine climbing basically means a subset of mountaineering (the first more broad definition) involving the very top end of mountain climbing - the faster, more difficult, more technical, and most of all more EXTREME form of climbing on high elevation rock, ice, and snow. And because of this, alpine climbing is what's cool. Nobody wants to be a mountaineer anymore, they all want to be alpinists...and that's understandable. You can't really blame them - one is thought of as grueling hiking up a glacier with an ice axe where the air is thin, while the other is pounding pitons and placing ice screws while scratching his way up a steep exposed chute with two ice tools.

Dane Christensen · · Nomadsville · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 10

Kris' explanation was more succinct and eloquent than I've ever been able to explain it, or even really thought about it.

I usually think about it more like what Wyatt said, especially the difference between fast-and-light (alpine) and seige-style (mountaineering). Alpine, à la Ueli Steck or Kilian Jornet, is going as fast as they can with the smallest amount of gear that they think they can get away with. Mountaineering, demonstrated by many / most other famous climbers you could think of, means hauling a good amount of extra gear in case of bad weather, gear failure, route problems... but mostly bad weather.

But as you and others have said, it is a spectrum.

Someone also once told me that a mountaineer, unlike an alpinist, still has all of his fingers...

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

Gators, the difference is gators.

Dobson · · Butte, MT · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 215
Ray Pinpillage wrote:Gators, the difference is gators.
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Ralph Kolva · · Pine, CO · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 210

Just don't ask that question over on 14ers.com, a lot of the folks over there think hiking an established and well traveled trail up a CO 14er is mountaineering.

Brad in the bay · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 30

And what about Alpinism...

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266
Kris Holub wrote:but it's reasonably accurate to say that mountaineering becomes alpine climbing when the technical difficulty of ascent becomes the crux of the route, as opposed to negotiating alpine elements.
Very good!

Ralph Kolva wrote:Just don't ask that question over on 14ers.com, a lot of the folks over there think hiking an established and well traveled trail up a CO 14er is mountaineering.
Hiking is mountaineering, just like paying 80,000 for a guided expedition to get you up Everest is Mountaineering. As long as the activity actually occurs in mountains.
Just Solo · · Colorado Springs · Joined Nov 2003 · Points: 80

Hmm, this could be like an oil thread on a car or motorcycle site!

To me, Alpinism is defined by the ethics of the climbing, light and fast. Small team. Usually technical, but of easy to extreme difficulty. Mountaineering to me is a general term that encompasses knowledge more than any particular discipline. Alpinism IS mountaineering as a good Alpinist has excellent technical and mountain knowledge.

Mountaineering can also be defined as climbing with a big group mentality, large teams, siege tactics, etc. Mountaineering is general, where Alpinism is more refined. But the lines are blurred between.

To me, hiking a Fourteener in not mountaineering, and requires few, if any, real mountain skills (unfortunately). Kick up the 14er a notch and do, say, the Kelso Ridge, The Knife Ridge etc. or any snow climb, then we get into the realm of needing actual mountaineering skills.

Rwwon ru · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 35

Boy, this thread would of been nice for my life insurance interview. The company was poorly defining some of these terms and applying an inaccurate risk assessment on me. Great discussion

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Mountaineering
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