Smaller cams to compliment X4s - TCUs or C3s place differently?

for squamish i havent found too many places for offset

the ones that are out there will frequently eat an offset nut pretty well ... and honestly id trust that more

as to the c3s ... those suckers have the narrowest head width of any cam, allowing to be placed in pods pretty well ... which do exist quite a bit in squamish

for squamish granite anyways ... any decent small cam will work ... aliens, zeros, TCUs, C3s, etc ... even the small camalots and dragons which are some of my post placed pieces

now the DMM offset nuts on the other hand ... god made squamish cracks to fit those things

;)

Thanks for the feedback, all.

Rack update:

BD 4-13 Nuts
DMM alloy offset nuts - full set (still learning to place these)
1x X4 .1
1x X4 .2
1x X4 .3 (use this all the time!)
1x X4 .4
1x X4 .5
1x C4 .5 (booty)
1x X4 .75
1x C4 .75
2x C4 1
2x C4 2
1x C4 3
1x C4 4

I would like to have some kind of doubling in the .3 and .4 range. I use the blue X4 so much I'm tempted to get another one. Or maybe a yellow C3, and possibly red, though opinions seem to differ on the utility of C3s in this area. For the .4, I can see the argument that the .4 C4 is too wide (the X4 is as wide as 3 of the lobes, almost exactly) but the .4 C4 feels so bomber, and as bearbreeder said sometimes any cam in the size range will do.

AndySkol wrote:Thanks for the feedback, all. Rack update: BD 4-13 Nuts DMM alloy offset nuts - full set (still learning to place these) 1x X4 .1 1x X4 .2 1x X4 .3 (use this all the time!) 1x X4 .4 1x X4 .5 1x C4 .5 (booty) 1x X4 .75 1x C4 .75 2x C4 1 2x C4 2 1x C4 3 1x C4 4 I would like to have some kind of doubling in the .3 and .4 range. I use the blue X4 so much I'm tempted to get another one. Or maybe a yellow C3, and possibly red, though opinions seem to differ on the utility of C3s in this area. For the .4, I can see the argument that the .4 C4 is too wide (the X4 is as wide as 3 of the lobes, almost exactly) but the .4 C4 feels so bomber, and as bearbreeder said sometimes any cam in the size range will do.

if you are in squamish doubles down to the green alien/small blue camalot/blue metolius will serve you well once you get into the 5.10/11 finger crack range

alot of the finger cracks here are perfect fingers (blue to gray camalot/green to yellow alien)

the green alien (or the equivalent size) is literally the money piece in squamish finger cracks

;)

You are speaking my language bearbreeder. That's right where I am at, and I am often reaching for the blue X4 finding that I have already placed it! I use the grey X4 less often, but still often enough that I want to double it too in some way.

Sounds like you see some value in C3s, but they aren't the "money piece." Is a blue X4 a good substitute for a green alien? I have never used offset cams so I don't have a good feel for whether I would search for placements for say a .3/.4 X4 or sink it all the time.

AndySkol wrote:You are speaking my language bearbreeder. That's right where I am at, and I am often reaching for the blue X4 finding that I have already placed it! I use the grey X4 less often, but still often enough that I want to double it too in some way. Sounds like you see some value in C3s, but they aren't the "money piece." Is a blue X4 a good substitute for a green alien? I have never used offset cams so I don't have a good feel for whether I would search for placements for say a .3/.4 X4 or sink it all the time.

ive used the blue/gray x4 a few times from partners racks but havent whipped on em yet ... so i cant give a solid opinion till ive personally whipped on em

realistically for squamish any decent cam will work ...

the C3s will work up here as well as anything else ... ive used and whipped on my partners and used to own a green one

i own and use the zeros, alien, TCUs currently .. ive never used an offset cam up here ... but i use my offset nuts every pitch

if you want X4s i would double up on the blue and grey ...

classic climbs such as these will eat em up ...









;)

Thanks for the feedback and great stoke photos bearbreeder! Hope the weather is good up there this weekend.

I need to put in some more time with the DMM/HB alloy offsets - only had them out a couple days. Can't wait to unlock some of their secrets. Do you use brass offsets or peenuts as well?

AndySkol wrote:Thanks for the feedback and great stoke photos bearbreeder! Hope the weather is good up there this weekend. I need to put in some more time with the DMM/HB alloy offsets - only had them out a couple days. Can't wait to unlock some of their secrets. Do you use brass offsets or peenuts as well?

i use both the brass offsets and peanuts ... however i recommend starting with the peanuts as they fit most places in squamish

the problem with the brass offsets is that every time your partner cleans em (and they WILL yank up on em) they start kinking

you can see how much even fairly new brass offsets kink compared to well used peanuts ...



and eventually with enough cleaning and falls this is the result ...



peanuts tend to last much longer as the shape isnt as offset and the wires dont kink as much ... this green peanut has seen 25+ whips, compared to a new one of the same size ... and i still whip on it =P



however do note that there is a bit of a gap in the sizing between the smallest (yellow) allow offset and the largest (gray) peanut ... for that getting the gray brass offset may be worthwhile, just be aware that you may replace it more often

;)

bearbreeder wrote: the green alien (or the equivalent size) is literally the money piece in squamish finger cracks ;)

Truer Words were never spoken.

Green Aliens in the PNW across the board are money pieces. Index and L'worth loved them just as much.

I think it was the first small size I doubled on when I moved there.

Get the Green Totem if you already have the .3 X4

Or consider the Blue/Green and Green/Yellow Offsets - I distinctly remember loving both the Green and Offsets sizes on many Squam climbs (Dream Symphony comes to mind - well, the corner pitches on Unfinished)

As a newb NW trad climber building my rack, this topic is awesome! Can't speak to the cams, as I'm still just rolling w c4s, but I absolutely love my DMM offsets. When they go, they're perfect. Same with my Tricams. Passive placements for the win!

Thanks again everyone, just wanted to add an update here.

I climbed flying circus (bearbreeder photo above) last weekend, great climb with varied moves and a solid balancy crux.

I ended up getting a second .3 X4 since I was using it so much. Only piece I'm missing now is a double in the .4 size, I just don't like the .4 X4 that much so I'm dragging my feet. It's the smallest double axle X4 and is hard to retract all the way due to the cord/glue issue (see X4 thread). I suppose I should go off brand, but I do generally really like the BD stuff.

I still need a bunch more practice with the DMM Alloy offsets, but they really do make some placements that are really untrustworthy with BD nuts bomber. I just need to get better at spotting those placements.

Great beta on the peenuts, durability, and the brass offset for the gap, bearbreeder. peenuts are likely in my future - I just feel like the bd nuts often don't fit squamish cracks that well, but I could use them as doubles.

Still don't have a feel for whether I would love offset cams or they would boggle the pumped out mind, so I'll focus more on working on passive placements for now.

AndySkol wrote:Thanks again everyone, just wanted to add an update here. I climbed flying circus (bearbreeder photo above) last weekend, great climb with varied moves and a solid balancy crux. I ended up getting a second .3 X4 since I was using it so much. Only piece I'm missing now is a double in the .4 size, I just don't like the .4 X4 that much so I'm dragging my feet. It's the smallest double axle X4 and is hard to retract all the way due to the cord/glue issue (see X4 thread). I suppose I should go off brand, but I do generally really like the BD stuff. I still need a bunch more practice with the DMM Alloy offsets, but they really do make some placements that are really untrustworthy with BD nuts bomber. I just need to get better at spotting those placements. Great beta on the peenuts, durability, and the brass offset for the gap, bearbreeder. peenuts are likely in my future - I just feel like the bd nuts often don't fit squamish cracks that well, but I could use them as doubles. Still don't have a feel for whether I would love offset cams or they would boggle the pumped out mind, so I'll focus more on working on passive placements for now.

BD Nuts are sub-par. Of the major sets, they're by far the worst. WC Nuts or DMM Walnuts are superior. I've found BD nuts aren't long enough and tend not to slot as well as the Brit nuts.

Yellow Totem Cam will be your best bet in the .4 X4 range. Then a Yellow Basic Cam Both Money finger pieces.

I just had 2 killer DMM aluminum offset nut placements today, both where other gear wasn't looking good and the offset nuts were dead nuts on - pun intended, but seriously. They were the smallest and largest ones. I think I only placed one regular (BD) nut in the same route. I think you're right about the BD nuts, matt.