Belaying up a third on a tag line?

Keep in mind that especially Aramid/Kevlar cords are so static, they will break if you take only a small lead fall on them. They are great for hauling or for pulling a rope but not for toproping or lead climbing. Read a little bit about "aramid breakdown" and then reconsider your idea :-)

jeff lebowski wrote: You rig the raps to pull the heavier rope. I've always used a 7mm tag because leading and handling a single + tag has always been the fastest option for me. I never could manage to get doubles to work well when dealing with hanging belays and lots of technical pitches where the leads were at my limit...just don't want to deal with 2 lead ropes then.

its much faster rapping on doubles/twins .... or using a skinny lead line and a skinny half as a tag

the reason is that with a rope + tag, if you are always rigging to pull the heavier rope, you have re-pull up the line after every rap to re-insert the tag line first

with doubles/single+half ... you just start feeding the other side through the chains till you hit the knot as you pull down the rope ... no need to pull up the rope again, which also lessens the chance of things getting stuck below you

with these light weight halves around ... theres no reason NOT to use one as a tag line IMO ... unless you really want to go skinny (5-6mm) for the tag line

;)

Re tie the edk during each rappel. Takes maybe 30sec.

I don't like using a dynamic line as a tag line because I feel they are more likely to get stuck. When a dynamic line gets jammed in a crack when pulling the ropes it gets skinnier which makes the jam even worse. Of course one should do everything possible to keep ropes out of cracks but shit happens when you're tired and its getting dark. I feel this is a regional issue also. I've climbed a lot of sandstone towers that follow plumbline cracks and have hanging belays and rappels in chimney systems. I honestly don't know anyone who uses doubles in that scenario. However, long wandering granite routes with ledge belays and rappels down clean faces seem more suited to doubles.

jeff lebowski wrote:Re tie the edk during each rappel. Takes maybe 30sec.

it takes more than 30 sec IME when after its been weighted and bounced on a few times on the rap, especially if your fingers are cold and tired, and the rope is wet when yr retreating from a storm ... and it still takes more time than simply pulling through the rope till the knot

retying the knots for 10+ raps when youre cold tired hungry in the dark, being pelted by wind and rain ... increases the chances of a screw up IMO

as to the rope getting stuck, thats why a half rope as a tag gives you the option of going back up ... and also gives you an option if your rope gets damaged on the way up or down

KISS

;)

It would take less than 10 rapells with a single 60m rope to get off the technical sections of the Grand. If you pitch out every pitch on the lower Exum and only belay the FP and V on the upper, you can get by with a 60m single for three people. None of the pitches on the lower are longer than 35M and none are harder than 5.7 (assuming you don't do the 5.10 variation).

jeff lebowski wrote: You rig the raps to pull the heavier rope. I've always used a 7mm tag because leading and handling a single + tag has always been the fastest option for me. I never could manage to get doubles to work well when dealing with hanging belays and lots of technical pitches where the leads were at my limit...just don't want to deal with 2 lead ropes then.

Have a hard time picturing that. Assuming you're rapping on the single rope, and not the tag line...

Anyways I'm sure it's possible, I just need to think about it. I'm also sure I'd fuck it up in the dark, wind, hungry, tired, etc.

My solution to leading hard pitches with doubles is to get ropes that are also rated as twins. I like the flexibility of being able to clip both on straigh pitches or when I'm just above a ledge.

why not isolate a bight on your single rope, put the stronger climber on the very bottom of it, weaker in the middle and call it a day?