Is trad climbing safe if you're fat?

I weigh about 225 or so, depending on what I ate that day. While I have confidence in my gear, the one thing I really worry about is rope stretch. I was climbing regularly on a 9.5mm for a while. Great rope but damn does it stretch when I take a lead fall. Especially when I've got a smaller belayer. I've since moved more towards 10mm ropes. Definitely food for thought.

My experience with falls, weighing around 185, both aid & free climbing... the rock was more likely to fail under my weight pulling on a micro nut than if I weighed less. Sometimes I felt the difference between fall and not fall was as little as the weight of a dozen pitons on my rack. Aid climbing I literally got to see placements fail / hold. Smaller stoppers and hooks cause more rock failure - a matter of point pressure. Free climbing falls... I never worried about destroying rock or gear on a 7 or larger stopper, or a 4 or larger hex. I'd hate to see the fall that could collapse a hex.

I guess I'm saying double and equalize small gear, place more frequently than most people would (every 7' instead of every 10?), make sure your belayer knows how to escape the belay, and it might make sense to only climb with people capable of slinging your injured body around, at least for trad/ ice. A smaller belayer might be able to hold the fall, escape the belay, and not be able to move you to a spot from which rescue is possible.

I definitely worry more about the rope being cut by stretch over an edge when I weigh more/ I'm carrying a bigger rack. I suggest getting a Blue Water Enduro 11mm, one of the few 15 fall single ropes out there. I worry about hitting things when I fall and I see that rope shrink down to dental floss size. Or you could do double rope technique with 10.5's... A lot of weight to pull upward, but the technique does have some advantages.

I've seen more than a few aid climbers who were overweight and would have been bruisers if lean - my worry (having taken one rocketing spinning a** over tea kettle fall) is the thought of someone coming out the the harness because there just isn't enough edge-of-hip for the harness to grab.

What about carrying a few Screamers? That might really, really make a difference. And stick with wire gates to minimize gate flutter, reducing the likelihood of biner breakage.

As for mock falls, yeah why not? I think more information is a good idea. You'd be experimenting as your own crash test dummy, and I'm sure crash test dummies could tell us some pretty interesting things. Maybe mock falls with a top-rope back up, onto progressively smaller gear? I think you would wind up with a gut sense of what would hold/ not, what falls you were willing to take/ not... actually sounds sensible, if a bit dangerous. You might not want to lead on that rope afterwards. It will have taken a battering. There may be a point where your kidneys take a pretty hard hit. Might be worth talking to a trauma center or ER nurse before you start taking mock falls.

Tying small people to the ground and squashing their midsections sounds like a fun game for the one doing the squashing, not so much for the people being smashed and squashed. They may say their ok but trust me they are not psyched when you start chicken winging above the last placement. These weights are fascinating and quite an insight into many of the Habitual posters in the MP community.

I'm sorry, I thought I'd read the whole thread but I must have missed something. Who was talking about tying small people to the ground and squashing their midsections?

Garret Nuzzo-Jones wrote:I weigh about 225 or so, depending on what I ate that day. While I have confidence in my gear, the one thing I really worry about is rope stretch. I was climbing regularly on a 9.5mm for a while. Great rope but damn does it stretch when I take a lead fall. Especially when I've got a smaller belayer. I've since moved more towards 10mm ropes. Definitely food for thought.

a thinner rope does not mean stretchier ... this is a common misconception ... it depends how the rope is designed

maxim pinnacle 9.6mm .... 26% dynamic, 5% static

mec.ca/product/5018-743/max…

beal top gun 10.5mm ... 37% dynamic, 9.5% static

mec.ca/product/5032-671/bea…

;)

Em Cos wrote:I'm sorry, I thought I'd read the whole thread but I must have missed something. Who was talking about tying small people to the ground and squashing their midsections?

this can easily be avoided by clipping the ground anchor into the belay loop rather than tying in ... or even (gasp) belaying off the rope tie in

basically have a direct line between the device and the ground anchor, leaving the body basically out of the system except as a bit of a counterweight

its the same reason those brits belay off the rope tie in on top belays where they dont use a re-direct ... you can easily see how not having the twisting action of the anchor->tie in-> climber -> belay loop can be more comfortable



;)

I don't think that climbing is safe for fat... The poor fat is going to be run out of town with all that climbing and falling.

What I seem to have missed is the part where anyone suggested anchoring any other way?

You should go do some aid climbing... That will teach you what will hold and what wont. It will also give you confidence in not so ideal protection...

The only unfafe thing for the big guys is... The belayer being pulled up and getting hurt. A dude took a 40 footer on the 5th pitch of tangerine trip and his little wife got lifted violently like 10 feet into a roof, broke her face!!! So just anchor your belayer (if he or she is a light) to a tree if on the ground or a bolt or a cam...

Mickey Sensenbach wrote:You should go do some aid climbing... That will teach you what will hold and what wont. It will also give you confidence in not so ideal protection... The only unfafe thing for the big guys is... The belayer being pulled up and getting hurt. A dude took a 40 footer on the 5th pitch of tangerine trip and his little wife got lifted violently like 10 feet into a roof, broke her face!!! So just anchor your belayer (if he or she is a light) to a tree if on the ground or a bolt or a cam...

Mickey,

I don't know anything about Tangerine Trip on El Cap, but why wouldn't the belayer be tied into the anchor on the 5th pitch of anything? Was there a huge ledge there?

She was tied to the anchor, but when big walling, it is common to put a 10 foot leash on your self. This is so you can get to the belay seat on the bottom of the haul bag or set up a portaledge or haul the bags... But when you have that much weight difference, she should have put a bottom anchor for herself...

It is a hanging belay. She most likely had a 10 foot leash and then was just hanging out in a belay seat or something... I do the same thing all the time, one time my partner took a 40 footer and I was just lifted out of my seat like 5 feet! But there was no danger in hitting anything so I didn't care!

Kirby1013 wrote:Eric, good way of summing it up. I'm more of the placing a #2 on a 5.5 than doing a finger crack placing no 1 tcu.

In that case I wouldn't worry much about the gear pulling. That #2 camalot isn't going anywhere. What I *would* worry about is falling on a 5.5 or anything in that range since it is presumably ledgy and/or low angle. Even if the gear holds, you will still hit stuff if you fall, and 270 lbs coming down on an ankle is a lot different than 170.

Oh and for your "heavy dudes falling on gear success stories" part:

Buddy of mine that weighs ~220 took a 10 footer on a #1 stopper and it held. Twice. You really never know til you fall off I guess huh?

Ryan Kempf wrote:I use getting puckered over RP's in Eldo as motivation not to eat shitty food. I too would trust a micro cam or some brass before ice screws, but that's not a fair argument. A good screw is as good as a good cam. @ the OP...Do you not worry about your weight on screws? You made a comment on protecting ice/trad routes differently... Is this because you feel like you are soloing on ice? Did you start climbing rock or ice 1st?

I was taught every leader on ice should feel like he's soloing. I did start climbing ice first but only for three days. After I got home I climbed in the gym for a few months. I hired a guide to teach me everything after the gym got boring.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: You brought up being fat, I only said weight. I would be more concerned about your belayer than the effects of your weight on the gear.

No wishing good luck? Haha I'm pretty sure neither one of us said fat and both of us said weight. This post is much less cryptic than you're last. I would have understood if you wrote this first.

Garret Nuzzo-Jones wrote:I weigh about 225 or so, depending on what I ate that day. While I have confidence in my gear, the one thing I really worry about is rope stretch. I was climbing regularly on a 9.5mm for a while. Great rope but damn does it stretch when I take a lead fall. Especially when I've got a smaller belayer. I've since moved more towards 10mm ropes. Definitely food for thought.

I use a 10.5mm Mammut Apex to lead with. At 120 bones I can give it away and buy another if I feel the need. On the other hand I've fallen 100 times on my gym's lead ropes. I think that's sketchy but gives confidence about the longevity of ropes.

I made it through another weekend of climbing! Thanks again to everyone else for all information and stories!

Aid climbing sounds like a great idea. I really wanna write a Wesley Summers style post about aid climbing to setup a top rope on the first pitch of multi pitch classic.. On a Saturday.. while my like 8 gym buddies tag along.

About tying the belayer to the ground... This weekend I had my belayer tie into his end then use that end of the rope to tie to a boulder or a tree instead of a sling. I figure the dynamic property of the rope would lessen the crushing of mid sections. Maybe Bearbreeder's post is about just that.

Kirby,

You could try Perlon for anchor building - it's not truly static, but not rubber-band dynamic either. I seem to remember around 10% dynamic extension on 7mm. I like to minimize the amount of rope involved in the anchor to give the leader as much workable distance as possible.

I believe BearBreeder's point was that belaying off the anchor takes the belayer out of the line of force, leaving the belayer with much more control over events.

You might want to get John Long's book "Building Anchors".

If you decide to get into aid climbing, find a copy of Long & Middendorf's book "Big Walls". It's older, but I think it's still the best one, overall. What I was trying to say was that aid has given me a very close view (24" from my face) of failing gear. Typically, tiny placement with tiny gear are more weight-dependent than the larger placements seen in free climbing. They are also prone to sudden, random failure. Biggest hint for aid I've never seen elsewhere: safety glasses, the wraparound type.

nicelegs wrote: quite so

You're not little, just fun sized!

Kirby1013 wrote: Haha I'm pretty sure neither one of us said fat and both of us said weight.

Kirby1013 wrote:Is trad climbing safe if you're fat?

Let it go Ray.