Tahoe bouldering guides coming out June
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FYI, the first of Dave Hatchett's comprehensive tahoe bouldering guides comes out this june, covering the north and west shore areas, and a phenomenal quantity of high quality bouldering. Most of the stuff in these books has previously been the preserve of locals via word of mouth. |
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Schwisow wrote:ok sean, i bet you could do a better job. everyone has to complain about something. how much more does he need to spoon feed bay area rats info? how do you think we find spots for the 1st time. hey, dont buy his book then. south/east shore will be split into 2 volumes. it was well over 600 pages and kinda bulky. the need to split was necessary. starting on the hwy 50 corridor, reaching down to kirkwood, out to ronin and all the way up to incline village.As it is a guide book, I think the call for accurate directions is not unreasonable. My wife and I just spent a month in Tahoe and while we were able to find almost all of the boulders, there were some that took far longer than they should have. Almost all stated distances are wrong and no landmarks are given for the majority of boulders. We are experienced outdoor climbers, not gym rats. For anyone considering making a trip from a long distance to Tahoe, please take a shit ton of foam. This is not a joke. With just the two of us, it was hard to carry enough padding to make a lot of the boulders anything but insane. As a point of reference, my wife was comfortable doing the close to 20 foot Spiderman Sit in North Bliss with a single Big Organic. She and I were both totally uncomfortable with many of the other landings that we encountered with two Big and one Simple Organic. Again, we are experienced boulderers, and fairly comfortable with 'ok' landings. To conclude, this certainly isn't the worst guide I've ever used, but it is in my bottom three. If you are considering coming from further than the Bay, please be aware the guidebook may drastically misrepresent the padding and spotting skill that you will need to climb as a small group. It is highly unlikely that you will run into any other climbers any time but the weekend (and then only at North Bliss and Lost in Space.) We found it significantly more difficult to pad than any place we have been before, which is a very long list. EDIT: Also, how are you supposed to know that a guide book is shitty and inaccurate before you buy it? Nice response, Schwisow. |
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Daves idea with the cartoon maps was that finding the boulders is part of the adventure, and he did not want to necessarily remove that from the experience. However, he included gps so that for those who wanted to go straight to the good stuff, they could do that also. |
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You guys are high, that book is a piece of ...art. without it you wouldnt know where half of the rocks are, yet it is still not good enough for you. go outside, get dirty, have a beer, relax AND try hard, but complaining is for sissies. get lost, in the woods |
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czar wrote:You guys are high, that book is a piece of ...art. without it you wouldnt know where half of the rocks are, yet it is still not good enough for you. go outside, get dirty, have a beer, relax AND try hard, but complaining is for sissies. get lost, in the woodsI agree. Just got this book, and I don't see any room for complaining. It's very well put together and very aesthetic to look at. Have not had any problems finding places, either. |
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czar wrote:You guys are high, that book is a piece of ...art. without it you wouldnt know where half of the rocks are, yet it is still not good enough for you. go outside, get dirty, have a beer, relax AND try hard, but complaining is for sissies. get lost, in the woodsMy opinion remains that I have less trouble finding boulders, routes, or anything else in guidebooks written in a language that I don't speak than in this. Congratulations on having no trouble, yet. You'll run into some before the end, or I'm mistaken. I don't care to get and drag around a GPS, I expect that a guidebook be functional. Out of the 100+ guidebooks I've used in my life, the accuracy of directions fall in the bottom 5% in this book. If I can wander around Spain and France and use the maps effectively, I should certainly be able to use them in the USA. I respect that you all have opinions that differ, and that is totally cool by me. I do, however, think that it is important that people traveling across country know what the situation is. Again, prepare to get lost, bring a ton of foam, and be prepared to get lost. Sorry, but I just wasn't a fan. |
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Geez, no wonder I never go on these sites. 2 complaints out of 1000 plus books sold isnt to bad. But seriously, bad directions? Hard to find? I admit it's a little harder to find boulders in a dense forest than your local Starbucks or climbing gym, but if you have any moutain savvy or a slight sense of adventure you wil find the directions are solid. The other 998 did. If you have any input to make the directions better please submit them for the 2nd edition, I will glady use it. The guides will refine and get better with peoples input over the years. When I went climbing today I didnt even bring my guide, I found the boulders and my chalkbag was over 1/2 full. I guess some peoples are always almost empty. |
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I gotta call out "Shotwell" on this: "please be aware the guidebook may drastically misrepresent the padding and spotting skill that you will need to climb as a small group." |
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Classy rant, from the author himself. |
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DaveHatchett wrote: I gotta call out "Shotwell" on this: "please be aware the guidebook may drastically misrepresent the padding and spotting skill that you will need to climb as a small group." ANSWER:Guidebooks tell you where a climb is and how hard it might be, they dont tell you haw many pads you might need or how to spot. You figure that for yourself when you look at the climb. And this: "My opinion remains that I have less trouble finding boulders, routes, or anything else in guidebooks written in a language that I don't speak than in this." ANSWER: This makes sense because clearly your don't speak my language. I speak common sense. Got any? Sorry for the hate, but when I see complete crap I have to say something. To conclude: Sounds like you could benifit from a GPS, but something tells me you would have a hard time finding the power button.Nice response, Dave. I have many suggestions about how you could improve your guidebook, but I'll keep them to myself. If you reviewed your directions, there is a chance you might catch some of the more obvious mistakes. I've climbed in forested areas, approached cliffs from above with no more beta than 'look for the wall with the chalk,' and managed to make it absolutely everywhere I've tried to go in the past. Never has it been as hard as you made it. Also, you do represent the 'danger' associated with a climb with your icons. I never got hurt out there and neither did my wife. We looked at boulders and made an assessment. However, I could have saved some time in going to look at remote boulders if those icons were remotely accurate. Believe it or not, I don't have time to hike out twice to some of the little fields in Tahoe to find out how many pads I need. That is a minor annoyance though, so perhaps I should have kept it to myself. Finally, you don't deserve any help. Believe it or not, you're representing a business venture here. I paid for this book, so I don't owe you anything. I don't have any compelling reason to help you do anything but fail. My review of your book was based on my experience with it as compared to at least 100 other guidebooks. P.S. Did you read guideline #1 before you posted? |
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Wow, just wow. |
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Boulderdoc wrote:Wow, just wow. Dude, I cannot believe you. You and your wife need to go to Bishop. Seriously. Easy approaches, lots of people and amenities. Tahoe is Epic. Lifers absolutely love it. I've been all over the world and can tell you it's one of the best areas around. Dave and other locals made trails and cleaned lichen and opened sick lines for themselves, you and I. You said in your first paragraph "My wife and I just spent a month in Tahoe and while we were able to find almost all of the boulders, there were some that took far longer than they should have." So let's see... You found all the boulders, but you were butt-hurt that it took you a bit longer. Dude, if you need that kind of hand-holding, I'm tellin you, Bishop. Perhaps the directions were written for more experienced/astute orienteers, but I've heard first-hand from climbers that they found the directions spot on. When someone writes a guide, they do the best job they can usually. In Dave's case, he did just about the best job possible. This is one of the best guides I've seen and I used it effortlessly to find several new zones that I had never been to. I get no money from this guide and have not been in contact with Dave or the Tahoe crew, in fact, I live in Colorado now. Sometimes people find something to hate on when they really are upset about something else. Perhaps the climbs were a bit hard or hard to find? That's on you and your wife my man. Fact is, a guide is just a guide. If you were able to get to the boulders with it, it did its job. I challenge you to write better descriptions to get to the boulders and give them to Dave. He will be the first to admit that the beta is better if indeed it is. I'm betting it wouldn't be. Until then, realize that it's your skill level that made it hard to find hard-to-find boulders with great beta. Your review is misleading to other would-be Tahoe boulderers, and downright offensive to a crew that spent hundreds of hours searching, cleaning, developing, recording and putting together a massive guide to some of America's best bouldering. You don't need to respond as I won't be checking anyhow. Noah Noah T. Kaufman, MDNoah, I know that this has hurt a lot of feelings. That is obvious from the responses. I do appreciate all of the hard work that went into the trails, boulders, landings, and other development in the area. I think that you all did a nice job of creating an area that has a great feel if you know what to expect going into it. I personally wouldn't go again without a crew, and I would take more than a month to give myself time to not feel rushed. Of course, I would fucking love it if I lived there. Long story short, I wouldn't drive 3000 miles with just my wife again. I felt like we needed more foam and more spotting to do the best lines. Have a nice day. |
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Sooo, Dave- When can I order the new south/east shore book? |
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Paul Zander wrote:Sooo, Dave- When can I order the new south/east shore book?Books will be in shops and available from the website around August 1st if the boat arrives on time. Enjoy!! |
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Mr Shotwell- |
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Dave, |
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Now we are getting somewhere positive! |
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Personally I find guides that have a gazllion icons for every climb totally useless - it just becomes some hieroglyphics that I just ignore. An icon that says "bring lots of pads" isnt terribly helpful either - do you need 4? or 6? or 10? |
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Boulders in Tahoe are generally scattered due to geography and geology... not just a cluster of boulders sitting on a smooth hillside visible for miles. The terrain can be complex, visibility limited, and the only landmarks are often "the big dead tree", which is temporary and ambiguous at best. I can see how some people could get lost even with good directions. That said, I have yet to get lost using Dave's guide and I'm glad we finally have a guidebook for Tahoe. It is a great guide by any standard. |
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Anybody know if this book is available in any shops in North Tahoe? |
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Ryan Pfleger wrote:Anybody know if this book is available in any shops in North Tahoe?Got mine at Tahoe sports hub in Truckee. Alpenglow in Tahoe city should also have em |