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New Alpinism

Jonny d · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 40

Mike F- I was at 3 hours of training time when I started, and it seems to have gotten me just fine into my first week of base period training. I calculated my volume based on the book's estimate of a chairbound desk jockey-- which was just about right, I think. My starting volume was right at 185 minutes, including strength training. If you want, PM me with your email address, and I'll share an Excel spreadsheet (speaking of desk jockeying) with you that runs through how I've done my calcs.

Jumi-Jakke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 0

Nice thread. I am just starting my transition period, based on seasonal workers trainig hours i.e. in transition period first 3 weeks, I am allowed to do 4 hours weekly (man, so little). Bit struggling/wondering my first weeks training times as couple of others.

Backgroung, I am living in mountain town during winter doing mainly ski touring at quite high altitude, some skimountaineering. During summer flatlands it is.

Anyways here is what I am going to do:

Monday strengh 45 mins (core+general strengh from book)
Tuesday running 1 hour zone 1
Wednesday strengh 45 mins (core+general strengh from book)
Thursday climbing 30 mins (actual climbing indoors)
Friday running 30 mins zone 2
Saturday off
Sunday Yoga 30 mins

Any thoughts about my program ? Am I getting it right ? Should Yoga be calculated in program ?

Tx in advance for any comments...

Tom Nyce · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45

@Jumi: I'm curious how much activity you did in the month of May? Will this present program be more, or less activity from your normal amount?

Jumi-Jakke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 0

Hi Tom !

Well after busy winter, kind of took May off from training, occasional Yoga or easy run. On April got 42 hours (mainly skitouring and running) and March 72 hours (mainly ski touring/skiing). On average I have logged over 400 hours per year last 2 years. Usually during summer/autumn weekly average is 5-7 hours of training i.e. kettleball classes and running zone 2/3. I quess my problem has been no zone 1 training as like to push my self a little bit to get that good hooking feeling...

So transition period is a bit less than my normal summer routine, base period will be more than my normal autumn.

Interested about hearing opinions about maintenance period, cause I am not aimingt at specifc target, just want to be in good condition whole next winter.

Quinn42 Peterson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 0

@ Jumi Your training seems really skewed towards Zone 2+. I am still reading and internalizing TftNA, but it strikes me that the big thing is to have 60%+ in zone 1, at least in terms of hours. To that end, I would say ditch the zone 2 run, and substitute a 1 h(+) zone 1 run. I think the Yoga should absolutely be counted.

Mike F · · Arden, NC · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 56

I'm with Quinn on the cardio. That said, the yoga is tricky. I have been doing a daily 20 min restorative/recovery session every day for about a year and a half now, an chose not to include it as it's more of a stretching deal than a workout. That said, if you're doing power yoga or really getting after it you prob should. I may be off w not including it, but given my starting volume(3.5 hr week) I would already be over the two hour mark with my morning ritual alone.

Quinn42 Peterson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 0

Mike - Definitely envisioning Bikram. Good point about intensity. I recently got a HRM, spurred on by this book, and it has been enlightening, to say the least.

Jumi-Jakke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 0

Good points Guys.

I am going to adjust my second run to zone 1/1 hour. Yoga is going to be restorative/recovery type so not going to calculate it to total. That gives me possibility to do second run as 1 hour.

Super. Any results from this program from people doing this for a while ?

Peter Gonda · · Boulder · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 36

How do you guys incorporate biking to work? If I bike ~40ish minutes each way for commute, how would you guys incorporate this into the training?

TWrenO · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 0

Biking to work would count as training time, so I would personally do all my commute biking as zone 1 work. Initially, depending on how many hours you are starting out with, that may mean that all you are doing during the first few weeks is biking to work, and the strength training exercises. For most of us, that would actually be too many hours, but if you've been commuting for a while I wouldn't get too caught up in that.

As the weeks progress and the number of total hours increase, you could add other weight bearing workouts like running and hiking with a pack.

Peter Gonda · · Boulder · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 36

Thats what I was thinking but someone else in the thread said that and 1 hour + 1 hour != 2 hours of zone 1. So It would appear I would not be getting in the correct type of zone 1 work outs?

Ryan Nevius · · Perchtoldsdorf, AT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,837
Peter Gonda wrote:1 hour + 1 hour != 2 hours of zone 1.
It's still 2 hours of zone 1; but you can't treat it the same as a single 2 hour zone 1 day. The training effect is different.
Tom Nyce · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45

I think that some of you guys are taking the whole "transition to training" thing too seriously. At the hours per week you are talking about, most (not all) of you aren't in any danger of overtraining, especially since you are doing a high percentage of zone 1.
I think that House and Johnston sort of went too far on the cautious side in that section of the book, because they had to account for people that hadn't been "training" before at all. I think that there are a bunch of people on this thread (especially the long term runners) that should moderate that section, or skip it all together and just go on to base training and building volume. I don't think that it is useful to cut back your hours per week, if you are already used to a certain volume. If you are reducing your present levels of intensity, you shouldn't also reduce the amount of time doing it.
I've been on a yearly training schedule long (years) before getting this book. Interestingly, my training has been based on the authors in the bibliography of House and Johnston book (Daniels, and Noakes). As I read the Alpinism book, I've been making (small) adjustments to my present program to make it more specific to alpinism. I'm carrying more weight, wearing heavier footwear, reducing my mileage, and increasing the average steepness of the terrain.

Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450

Curious: among folks who have been getting in a good amount of zone 1 (3-4h a week of road and trail running in my case) what have you been seeing with your weight? Up? Down? Same?

I'm feeling like the trail running may have bulked me up a little bit in the legs, but maybe (more likely) it's that I've let my guard down diet-wise with fun vacation and summer stuff.

Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143

3-4 hours of running per week for about two months. My weight has stayed constant (it seems). I would attribute this to the huge increase in appetite that has come with all this running. However, I am not keeping any kind of close eye on my caloric intake, so it's total conjecture. I do, however, feel so much more fit. Pushing up towards two hour continuous efforts, slowly but surely. When I began this I could barely run (slowly) for an hour, in the city, without stopping.

Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
Alexander Blum wrote:3-4 hours of running per week for about two months. My weight has stayed constant (it seems). I would attribute this to the huge increase in appetite that has come with all this running. However, I am not keeping any kind of close eye on my caloric intake, so it's total conjecture. I do, however, feel so much more fit.
Yep that pretty much describes my situation too! Are you doing trails or roads?
Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
Alexander Blum wrote:3-4 hours of running per week for about two months. My weight has stayed constant (it seems). I would attribute this to the huge increase in appetite that has come with all this running. However, I am not keeping any kind of close eye on my caloric intake, so it's total conjecture. I do, however, feel so much more fit. Pushing up towards two hour continuous efforts, slowly but surely. When I began this I could barely run (slowly) for an hour, in the city, without stopping.
Also, curious to know what your pace is doing... Mine improved initially but seems to have plateaued at about 10:30 for roads in zone 1. I'm about 4 months in to this at this point.
Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143

Roads. I am sure my speed would decline (significantly) on trails, but am confident that I could keep up the duration at a given heart rate (which is the point, right?). When I can easily knock out a two hour + run I am going to try to start moving my "long zone 1" workout into the woods whenever possible.

Kai Larson · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 436

Weight loss specifics are often linked to genes and body chemistry.

Some people simply can't lose weight without anaerobic exercise.

So, you could be doing a ton of zone 1, but not losing weight, because your body needs to get into zone 2 or 3 to trigger fat burning.

I can do lots and lots of zone 1 (minimum 90 minutes a day) and won't lose weight (even with restricted food intake) until I start doing some zone 3 as well. Then the fat starts to go burn off.

Some additional information here:

rockstarresearch.com/these-…

Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
Kai Larson wrote:Weight loss specifics are often linked to genes and body chemistry. Some people simply can't lose weight without anaerobic exercise. So, you could be doing a ton of zone 1, but not losing weight, because your body needs to get into zone 2 or 3 to trigger fat burning. I can do lots and lots of zone 1 (minimum 90 minutes a day) and won't lose weight (even with restricted food intake) until I start doing some zone 3 as well. Then the fat starts to go burn off. Some additional information here: rockstarresearch.com/these-…
Thanks Kai...

The calorie counting/restriction did work for me, but I found it was really making it tough to recover and to really push hard in the training...
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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