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Choosing a belay device and locking carabiner

Original Post
Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

Perhaps this should be posted in the Beginner Climbers section because that's what I am, but it is a gear question.

I need a belay device and locking carabiner. I have no idea what I'm really looking for because there seems to be a lot out there. I guess I need simple, effective and reliable. I don't like buying things twice (though it happens) so are there any "industry standards" that would be a safe bet to get me going and that I won't need to replace with something lighter/stronger/better for a while? Price isn't really a big issue as long as it does it's job.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Here are the two basic items that work well:

rei.com/product/830891/petz…

rei.com/product/722353/blac…

I'm not going to get into a "ATC Guide is better than Reverso 4" debate. I'm sure both have their merits and drawbacks.

Also, you want a large, pear-shaped locker, like the one I linked to. Again, there's a case to be made for auto-lockers, but I prefer the screwgate.

It's not a major purchase and those two items will last you quite a while.

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
FrankPS wrote:"ATC Guide is better than Reverso 4" debate. I'm sure both have their merits and drawbacks. Again, there's a case to be made for auto-lockers, but I prefer the screwgate.
Personal preference ATC Guide. You won't need another belay device and in my opinion (fact?) it feeds thicker ropes much more smoothly than the Reverso. I have both and use the guide more.

Screwgate over autolock.
Linnaeus · · ID · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 0

ATC Guide is a better option for a beginner because it works better on larger ropes and lasts substantially longer. I use an ATC Guide for everything from sport to multipitch.

I think a BD Rocklock is just too big. Who ever needs a belay biner that big? I have used a Petzl Attache belay biner for years and it seems to be the perfect size. I have a Magnetron Rocklock and hate the size, it's just too big. Metolius Element is another good size (same as the Attache) but the screw gate takes too many turns, about double the Attache.

Long story short, BD ATC Guide and a Petzl Attache or equiv biner. Huge versatility, years of service.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

Thanks for the input everyone.

BD ATC and Attache (or similar) it is. That was easy. :)

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
Mathias wrote:Thanks for the input everyone. BD ATC and Attache (or similar) it is. That was easy. :)
Note that there is a difference between the ATC and the ATC Guide, recommended above. Get the ATC Guide over the regular ATC.
Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
FrankPS wrote: Note that there is a difference between the ATC and the ATC Guide, recommended above. Get the ATC Guide over the regular ATC.
Thanks Frank! I wouldn't have caught that one in the store.
Gail Blauer · · Gardiner, NY · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,051

I am really liking the Alpine Up. Albeit an advanced device, it's very versatile. It does take some practice.

Kevin Pula · · Denver · Joined May 2012 · Points: 20

Everyone is saying get the ATC guide. Which is good advice but no one mentioned if you are using the guide mode and need to have the guide over the regular ATC, you also need to make sure you get a belay biner that can handle a Munter hitch. Also learn a Munter hitch.

The carabiner should have an H in a circle stamped on it somewhere. Thy symbolizes it's designed to properly use a Munter on. Ask the shop about the biner if you're unsure. If they don't know, go to a different shop and don't support them.

If you don't think you'll need a Munter. You probably won't need an ATC guide. Just get the ATC then.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
Kevin Pula wrote:Everyone is saying get the ATC guide. Which is good advice but no one mentioned if you are using the guide mode and need to have the guide over the regular ATC, you also need to make sure you get a belay biner that can handle a Munter hitch. Also learn a Munter hitch. The carabiner should have an H in a circle stamped on it somewhere. Thy symbolizes it's designed to properly use a Munter on. Ask the shop about the biner if you're unsure. If they don't know, go to a different shop and don't support them. If you don't think you'll need a Munter. You probably won't need an ATC guide. Just get the ATC then.
Does this gibberish mean something? I need an interpreter for this.
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

I prefer a large locker, but the Attache also works really well. Whatever biner you get, make it a keylock/no snag one.

Any tube style device is fine..check the deals section.. Wild Country has some great prices ..like $20 for both

SteveZ · · Excelsior, MN · Joined Sep 2007 · Points: 431

Also worth mentioning that if you plan to belay in "guide mode" (from above, directly off the anchor) you'll need two lockers. Works best if one is thick and round (that's what she said) like those mentioned above.

That said I use a gri gri like 99% of the time :-).

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

Well I went for the ATC Guide. I definitely don't need the guide mode right now, but I can imagine it may be useful in the future. I ended up getting a GridLock screw gate carabiner. They didn't have the Attache and when I started looking at the other options I realized that whilst the GridLock might be harder to put onto a belay loop, it would certainly prevent cross-loading at the gym and generally keep the system better located whilst I'm learning. I'm sure some people really dislike the design but I can see merit to it.

Kevin Pula · · Denver · Joined May 2012 · Points: 20
FrankPS wrote: Does this gibberish mean something? I need an interpreter for this.
It just seems dumb that everyone is concerned that the rock lock is too big, but at the same time think someone should get a guide ATC. If you need the guide ATC for the type of climbing you're doing (multi pitch). You shouldn't get a small carabiner that can't help you in a pinch.

Not to mention getting a gridlock. Check out this thread. mountainproject.com/v/dumbe…

You'll see the gridlock on there plenty.
Kevin Pula · · Denver · Joined May 2012 · Points: 20

Also I'd love to see the scenario In a gym where a fall creates enough force to exceed a cross loaded biner's limits.

K R · · CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 50

GriGri is another option. It's pretty rad. I do all gym belaying and almost all single pitch belaying on it. I would belay multi pitch and usually trad climbing on the reverso. Reverso causes less force on gear, and it has guide mode for multi pitch. GriGri is convenient and causes smaller falls so is good if there is decking potential.

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
Pontoon wrote:GriGri is another option. It's pretty rad. I do all gym belaying and almost all single pitch belaying on it. I would belay multi pitch and usually trad climbing on the reverso. Reverso causes less force on gear, and it has guide mode for multi pitch. GriGri is convenient and causes smaller falls so is good if there is decking potential.
Considering this is his FIRST belay device, a gri-gri is a wee bit advanced. Learning basic belaying skills before buying an intricate device might keep from another "climber decked at xxx gym" thread.

And the gridlock is "ok". I was never worried about cross loading I just thought it would be easier having a biner that didn't flip, but I spend just as much time getting it on my harness swapping out as I did flipping my belay biner. Plus it only goes to the gym or single pitch crag. I wouldn't use it multi-pitch or in the mountains so it's usage for me is limited.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

ATC and a GRIGRI if money isn't an issue. Rap device and belay device. Learn the ATC then move onto grigri.

Mark R · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Mathias wrote:Well I went for the ATC Guide. I definitely don't need the guide mode right now, but I can imagine it may be useful in the future. I ended up getting a GridLock screw gate carabiner. They didn't have the Attache and when I started looking at the other options I realized that whilst the GridLock might be harder to put onto a belay loop, it would certainly prevent cross-loading at the gym and generally keep the system better located whilst I'm learning. I'm sure some people really dislike the design but I can see merit to it.
Anything will be fine for a first setup, especially for gym use. You might want to swap the gridlock down the road but you'll end up accumulating other biners as you go and cheap lockers come up in the classified section all the time.
Joe Platko · · Cleveland, OH · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 10

I would go with the Mega Jul or Smart Alpine (and the Alpine Up may be a contender though I don't own one.) But whatever you buy now, you will probably buy another belay device or more in the future.

Chris S · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 446
FrankPS wrote: Does this gibberish mean something? I need an interpreter for this.
I'll take a stab at it - Kevin is pointing out that an ATC Guide isn't necessary unless the owner intends to learn how to belay from the anchor, which is a valid point. Still, if the OP is eager to advance their techniques to multi-pitch climbing, then I agree that an ATC guide will provide that opportunity for a minor increase in cost. Another advantage to the ATC over the ATC Guide is it keeps things simple. When the new climber is ready to start leading and belaying on multi-pitches, they can upgrade to an ATC Guide and keep the ATC with a locker as a loaner.

HMS and other pear shaped carabiners are designed, intentionally, to have a flat "bottom" for applying the munter hitch, a practice I've seen be much more prevalent in Europe. You can find that H stamp immediately after the CE number on the carabiner. I personally prefer the largest belay biner I can find - especially in the alpine or ice climbing with gloves on. The BD Rocklock is ideal for me. There are also some advantages in releasing a loaded ATC Guide in use on the anchor and in other applications if the hanging carabiner is shorter than the belay carabiner. So my belay biner is a Rocklock, but my remaining lockers are smaller.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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