Does anyone actually use a mountaineering axe?

Boot Ax Belay: there, I said it. Saved 5 lives on a fall on K2 back in the 50's,,,and I used it to save my partners fall on a steep snow slope in the Rockies back in the early 80's..it's an amazing multi- purpose tool that is a must for mountaineering ascents.

Self arrest on snow fields and home defense.

Rick Blair wrote:Self arrest on snow fields and home defense.

Self defense? you must live in IL like me. thank goodness we finally got conceal and carry law passed this year!!!! No more a-holes at the corner store at 2AM when I need to get more beer!

Many people get away with using whippets in place of an axe but IMO an axe is far sturdier, more versatile, and the extra weight in nominal. I'd rather have it and not use it than not have it but need it.

When ski-mountaineering it provides a bomber belay when switching over to booting from skis when the terrain gets too steep or taking a much needed rest, allows you to chip steps when approaching a climb up a coolie and an axe saved my life once while descending the coolie below Matterhorn Peak after a climb.

Edit- don't forget to leash it!

"For background, we are both competent skiers, however, I also alpine climb, ice climb, rock climb, etc. Where I am a climber, he is much more on the "peak bagger" end of the spectrum"

Stop trying to make your friend do something he doesn't want to do. Just because you spent six hundred bucks on a couple of tools that you didn't need doesn't mean everybody else needs to too.

Not to beat a dead horse (it seems your question has pretty much been answered) but, I have done plenty of ski-mountaineering objectives requiring some easier ice climbing and or mixed climbing. I have done them all either with 1 piolet, or with 1 piolet and 1 cobra.

Dreamweaver to dragons egg? 1 piolet and one cobra.

95% of the time I'll only have the piolet when skiing.

I'd be interested in what objectives you've been skiing? They sound pretty sweet, I'm sure I'd enjoy adding them to my list to hit.

Fun topic!

I have 1 hybrid tool (Matrix Light w/ slider), 1 ice tool (Quantum Tech), and 2 Nomics. I do not own a traditional axe. I have on one occasion rented a traditional axe, instead of using the tools that I own.

When onsighting a route or repeating a route without an up-to-date conditions report, I almost opt for 2 tools. For me, the increased flexibility and options is almost always worth the extra weight. For routes where I expect WI4 or M5 and harder pitches, I bring the Nomics. Otherwise, I generally opt for the hybrid and ice tool combo.

The hybrid tool does not work very well as a deadman anchor in soft snow conditions, so even on easy glaciated terrain, I bring the second ice tool for a "saxon cross" deadman anchor. This is important, when you have an independent 2-person rope team. The belayer has to be able to set up a solid anchor from the self arrest position. Having two tools makes this much faster in soft conditions.

The only time that I opted for a traditional axe was when I climbed Mt. Blanc via the Gouter route. This route requires lots of plunging and self arrest (if you fall), but doesn't require any daggering or piolet traction. If I was inclined to do more routes like this, I would probably use a traditional axe.

I had the pleasure of spending 10 days doing a guiding course with Anselme Baud over the past two weeks. I am happy to report that he is still climbing and skiing very well, with a piolet, of course. He's also a super nice guy.

The new refugio on Huayna Potosi at around 18,000' is dedicated to him because of his work to establish a UIGAM school in Bolivia to raise the local guiding standards. Also, he skied the French Route on Huayna in 1975. The night before the ceremony to officially open the refugio, 100 mph winds blew the roof off at 1 am and Anselme and the others who were sleeping there had to dance all night to stay warm. Good times.

^ That is an awesome story. Thanks for sharing.

Sorry to resurrect this Great War of the the shafts, but I'm just curious as to where the the WI5/M10 mentioned multiple times was coming from? Are you just out for a ski and, SHIT! All the sudden you're two pitches deep into octopussy! Just hiking a mellow couloir and OH NO! Out of nowhere you're half way up hyalite's futuristic dry project. I wish my snow slogs turned into M10 send fests man.. With vipers nonetheless! Someone get this man a sponsorship STAT!

CCChanceR wrote:Sorry to resurrect this Great War of the the shafts, but I'm just curious as to where the the WI5/M10 mentioned multiple times was coming from? Are you just out for a ski and, SHIT! All the sudden you're two pitches deep into octopussy! Just hiking a mellow couloir and OH NO! Out of nowhere you're half way up hyalite's futuristic dry project. I wish my snow slogs turned into M10 send fests man.. With vipers nonetheless! Someone get this man a sponsorship STAT!

LMFAO:)

Reid Kalmus wrote: LMFAO:)

+1.. That was a great post!

YOu think you could ski/climb that ice silo thing in IL with a mountaineering axe?

TheBirdman wrote: Basically what I'm asking is a mountaineering axe a totally antiquated tool at this point other than a few highly specific applications? Can't a versatile ice tool do everything a mountaineering axe can plus quite a bit more? Why would anyone choose to bring one mountaineering axe into the mountains as opposed to two "all-mountain" tools?

It's the skill of the person, not the tool.

If you do research I believe you'll find that the first ascent of BridalVeil falls was done with straight shaft 70cm glacier axe and a 3rd tool.

I've climbed snow and ice covered 5.4 rock in approach shoes with aluminum crampons and a single glacier axe. Were those the ideal tools for the job - probably not. But they were what I had and they worked just fine.

And yes a glacier axe will beat a tech tool any day on self-arrest - which is usually the main reason you carry one.

Although for ski mountaineering I might consider buying a whippet.

Sorry if that was already covered, I didn't have time to read all the replies.

Adam Burch wrote:YOu think you could ski/climb that ice silo thing in IL with a mountaineering axe?

Not me! I need the latest and greatest gear to climb anything.. Especially steep ass silo in IL thing ice.