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Who wants real anchors on Vision Quest, IC?

Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0

Dude those bolts on vision quest totally ruined my wilderness experience. Making "trad" anchors at Indian creek are so boss.

Mic Fairchild · · Boulder · Joined Jan 2003 · Points: 360

Tony- I did Rosy with Layton BITD. He was OK with the upgrade.

Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0

You're a wee bit dense I take it. It's called sarcasm. If you read my other posts you'd have realized that.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
Tug wrote:You're a wee bit dense I take it. It's called sarcasm. If you read my other posts you'd have realized that.
Oh, I think he realized that... thus, his post.
Your sarcasm still misses the point.
If you think about it long enough, or alternatively, read the thread and consider it, perhaps you'll actually get it. Or not.

Maybe you really are "that guy" (You know, the one that needs a knock knock joke explained to him) and not just obstinate. Just in case, let me give you a hand with that:

Bolts may not effect your wilderness experience, but parties rapping the route back down through you while climbing, or TR'ing the first pitch of a multi pitch route all day (A la the Bastille Crack) might change your experience on the climb. As might the nature of and number of parties on it.

If the "anti-retrobolt" party argument only sounds so insipid when you try to voice it? What does that say about you?
Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
Tony B wrote: Oh, I think he realized that... thus, his post. Your sarcasm still misses the point. If you think about it long enough, or alternatively, read the thread and consider it, perhaps you'll actually get it. Or not. Maybe you really are "that guy" (You know, the one that needs a knock knock joke explained to him) and not just obstinate. Just in case, let me give you a hand with that: Bolts may not effect your wilderness experience, but parties rapping the route back down through you while climbing, or TR'ing the first pitch of a multi pitch route all day (A la the Bastille Crack) might change your experience on the climb. As might the nature of and number of parties on it. If the "anti-retrobolt" party argument only sounds so insipid when you try to voice it? What does that say about you?
Wow is this what senility looks like on the internet? He is patting Hank on the back for doing a good job.

You can't even agree with yourself. Read all YOUR posts.

I don't need anything explained to me Bubb. You guys are taking this a little too seriously. Do I really need to point out how stupid you sound?

I'm not going back to do that route. I've done it. There is a lifetime of adventure and first accents out in the desert if that is what you are looking for.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665

Tug, I've done it twice. I might do it again. But me being done or not done with it does not preclude my concern with what is good or not good for the community at large and the route. I am capable of thinking beyond my immediate needs. This occurs for some people as they grow up. Not for others, I suppose.

My opinion on the bolts on this climb has never wavered. I have had no lack of consistency on that. In this case the message is only as thick as the reader (you).

I realize that CJC's position differs from mine. You see, I actually know the guy, and I can read. We've had long conversations prior about rap stations and retrobolts where he has expressed other opinions, some of which I agreed with, some of which I did not. You can go look up the Cob Rock raps discussion that precipitated long talks about that one. In that case he didn't like the raps installed. Different situation, different conclusion on his part. It's situational, and he disagrees with me. But that doesn't mean I need to paint him a fool when he is not. I recognize that he's doing his part to voice nad vote his concerns with respect to stewardship in the community. Which is different than stirring a can of chicken-shit. Ask me to elaborate if that is unclear, still.

I also consider Hank a friend. I just don't happen to agree with the idea of putting what will be rap anchors on the route. I do agree with fixing the top of the rap route. He does't always agree with my ideas about things either, and that's fine. Doesn't particularly bug me or effect my opinion of him.

In any case, your sarcasm and inaccurate framing of a different point of view were what was at issue here, not your difference of opinion. Thus the suggestion to allow the adults to converse without it. If you were not such a fool, you'd probably at least feel foolish about that.

But I doubt that's the case.

They say that in poker: "If you've been at the table for 30 minutes, and you don't know who the patsy is, then you are the patsy." Have you noticed yet that while both CJC and I are 'dumb' and 'senile' while Mic, Jeff, Steve, Josh, and others are discussing the particulars or philosophies of this, you continue to misread, mis-characterize and misrepresent the matter at hand and the opinions expressed?

Fools being allowed to speak for even a good cause can make it look bad. Yes, please do run along now...

Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
Tony B wrote:It's a classy route that 10 years ago was somewhat 'adventure' and saw little traffic. With the modern crowd/use the route sees, it probably may justify better anchors
You advocating better anchors.
Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
Tony B wrote:Sure, trundle whatever is genuinely loose without fanfare. Doesn't require community debate.
So anything you think is fine doesn't need to be debated?
Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
Tony B wrote: Bolts may not effect your wilderness experience, but parties rapping the route back down through you while climbing, or TR'ing the first pitch of a multi pitch route all day (A la the Bastille Crack) might change your experience on the climb.
Really, you think people are going to go up and tr the first pitch of VQ?

People are already bailing on the route and leaving butt loads of tat and crap on the route. In my opinion two bolts at the belay is way less intrusive.
Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
Tony B wrote:Very funny how these things work out when unilateral action is taken without a clear overwhelming majority...
This is hilarious. Overwhelming majority? Never going to happen. You cant even agree with yourself. And you're calling me a fool?

I could keep going but why. Running along now.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
Tug wrote: So anything you think is fine doesn't need to be debated?
I think things that traditionally enjoy overwhelming support don't.

Tug wrote: And you're calling me a fool?
Yup. Pretty close. Perhaps the difference is semantic in your view, but I was describing you as a fool, not calling you one.
Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0

Ok great. You are quite the wordsmith, yet you ignore that you've contradicted yourself.

I'm not sure how you gleaned from my post that I don't understand the issues at hand. My only serious post about two bolts being less intrusive than a hodgepodge of tat seems to be a valid point.

People are going to bail on this route and leave stuff behind. There is already a rap route so if they top out why are they going to rap down on another party?

People aren't going to go up there and top rope gangbang the first pitch. It aint Eldo. The douchebag level is much lower in the creek.

Bolts or no bolts I really don't care. I just think its funny that you can't make up your mind what side you're on and expect the climbing community to come to a clear overwhelming majority.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
Tug wrote:Ok great. You are quite the wordsmith, yet you ignore that you've contradicted yourself.
When a statement like that requires you to cut partial quotes out of context to have a standing, then it means you are either dishonest or a fool.
I'm not sure which is worse, but I'm not a big fan either way. At least fools can be likable, and sometimes even trusted. That's why I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt by describing you that way.

So, in case you are a genuine fool, and an honest fool, let me remind you that my quote (which you trimmed and took out of context) read:

Tony B wrote: And if one of the fixed anchors is crap, pull that pin and replace it with a fatty. However, if there is a belay with a single anchor and there is gear available, why not leave it to be a "backed up" gear anchor anyway? What's wrong with placing gear?
Hmmm. Sure seems consistent when you don't trim the quote, doesn't it? Yup... check - perfectly consistent all along. Which brings me to my final question:

Tug wrote: The douchebag level is much lower in the creek.
So do you get lonely there?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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