Thoughts on Dirty Ropes

I found this article about the reduction in rope strength caused by dirt. It is rather worrisome. What are everyone's thoughts on this? It seems rather impossible to keep ropes from coming into contact with dirt and grime to some extent during use, and it would seem similarly unlikely that just cleaning the rope would magically restore this lost strength. If nothing else, this underscores the obvious fact that, we shouldn't be stepping on the rope and should use a tarp/bag.

So, how dirty is too dirty? Any other tips for reducing dirt exposure?

Personally, I think the fear of dirty ropes is overblown, although I have no "data" to support this. But I don't baby my ropes.

There are more dangerous things to worry about, such as loading my rope over a sharp edge, pro pulling, taking a long fall on a ledgy climb, etc. Dirty ropes isn't one of my bigger concerns. Or one of my smaller ones.

Some people place a lot of importance on washing their ropes, others don't. To each his own.

Remember a rope is rated for way more force than it will ever see. Even at 40 percent reduction the force needed to break the rope would easily kill someone. Worry more about your gear failing than the actual rope (except in the scenarios listed above)

John Wilder wrote:One thing to keep in mind with rope strength data is that, in the real world, a kernmantle climbing rope has never broken during use due to loss of strength.

^^ Do you have any links to support this, I'm only curios? A dirty rope is never really on my mind, but I'll never forget the time a friend and I went up to Devil's Tower. He was about to hop on lead on Walt Bailey ( mountainproject.com/v/walt-…) and when I pulled out and flaked my rope he quickly grabbed his one and said he'd rather lead on that. To each their own I guess, I've never cleaned my rope and it's been going great for three years now on Black Hills Granite ( mountainproject.com/v/south…). It's a Petxl Xion 10.1mm/70m/dry rope and it's always been good to me.

I've never heard of a documented case of a rope breaking.

Sometimes I think a filthy rope might wear out your rappel 'biner and rappel device faster, though.

I agree with John and William about the dubious value of washing a rope. I NEVER wash my ropes, and would even go a step further and say that washing MIGHT be a bad thing. You never know what kind of residue is in a commercial washer and to what you might be exposing your rope. Ropes are not delicate and I am not saying that washing your rope in a commercial washer is going to destroy it. However, to me it is just another reason not to wash a rope. YMMV.

Didn't someone's rope break during a lead test at a bay area gym a few years ago? The manufacturer claimed that they found trace amounts of [something] on the rope, but, that's what I'd say if I were them too. Hard to believe a "trace" of something would get past the mantle into the core, but who knows.

It was not dirty, but I remember thinking, ok, ropes can break.

FrankPS wrote:Personally, I think the fear of dirty ropes is overblown, although I have no "data" to support this.

I have tons of data to support it. Here it is:

Fatalities involving failed ropes as a result from excess dirt, 1975-2014: Zero.

There you go. The fear is overblown. That is unless you think you are going to be the first person ever to die from a dirty rope, in which I wonder how you summon the courage to even tie in.

Phil Esra wrote:Didn't someone's rope break during a lead test at a bay area gym a few years ago? The manufacturer claimed that they found trace amounts of [something] on the rope, but, that's what I'd say if I were them too. Hard to believe a "trace" of something would get past the mantle into the core, but who knows. It was not dirty, but I remember thinking, ok, ropes can break.

Yea, his rope was contaminated with sulfuric acid, one of the single worst things to expose your rope to. A rope exposed to SA can fail on bodyweight alone.

people.dbmi.columbia.edu/~d…

Darn, I have been using sulphuric acid to clean my rope. So you're saying I should stop, 20 kN?

teece303 wrote:Darn, I have been using sulphuric acid to clean my rope. So you're saying I should stop, 20 kN?

No, keep going. The workers in the sulfuric acid production business need your money to keep their jobs. With this shitty economy, not as many people have had extra cash to buy meth, which in turn hurts the sulfuric acid industry since meth cookers are their number one customer.

teece303 wrote:Sometimes I think a filthy rope might wear out your rappel 'biner and rappel device faster, though.

Agreed.

In canyoneering situations I've worn out a rappel biner in several raps with a fine-sand-impregnated rope. I also suspect/expect that dirt contributes to fuzzing of the rope sheath.

I wash all my ropes dynamic and static and my slings a minimum of twice a year. The ropes I do in an electricians coil and the slings I just throw in. I use a front loader at the laundromat and a cheap detergent. We went through this same thread a year ago and mammut suggests to wash in a mild detergent solution.

There is no excuse for a dirty rope. When I meet someone at a crag who has dirty ass hands from their rope I tend to stay away. If you can't keep your lifeline clean you deserve the re processions that may result...

mammut.ch/en/slingswebbings…

yes

Ryan N wrote: There is no excuse for a dirty rope. When I meet someone at a crag who has dirty ass hands from their rope I tend to stay away. If you can't keep your lifeline clean you deserve the re processions that may result... mammut.ch/en/slingswebbings…

dont climb moderate multi in squamish

the belay ledges are full of dirt and your no one is bringing up a rope bag

if you climb daily and do several of em a week, youll need to wash your rope every week, even daily

now who here washes their rope every week?

only on da intrawebs do we have folks whinning about their partners dirty ropes rather than worrying about things more important that will keep you alive .. like making sure they know how to belay properly

a standard squamish belay ledge full of dirt ... butt face 5.9 squamish chief

in squamish the ones who whine about dirty ropes are single pitch sport climbers or folks who do minimal climbing ... anyone who climbs trad multi knows their ropes will get dirty every day

the owner of squamish rock guides sometimes teaches beginner classes by saying

"you know this thing called microfractures???" ... chucks biner against the rock

"you know the bullshiet about dirty ropes killing you???" ... throws the rope in the dirt

"you know the whinning about stepping on the rope???" ... jumps on ropes for good measure

if you climb multi in squamish you will do ALL of those thing eventually

;)

Locker wrote:That's what I was afraid of. I guess I had better throw them out and get all new ones. This sucks!

I get a new set of biners and nylons and a new rope at least once a year. What's your life worth, man? That's all I'm sayin', bro.

20 kN wrote: Yea, his rope was contaminated with sulfuric acid, one of the single worst things to expose your rope to. A rope exposed to SA can fail on bodyweight alone. people.dbmi.columbia.edu/~d…

Ah, thanks for the link refresher! I forgot that it was BD--I would trust their public conclusion more than, say, if CCH had made ropes...

I think a lot of people's takeaway from this was, "my rope never gets exposed to sulfuric acid, so it won't break."

That's what the rope's owner would have said too, before the rope broke.

The number of bizarrely flukey, low-probability things that had to happen for that rope to break... why couldn't they happen to you, or anyone? You're playing a numbers game, and who knows, maybe you'll be the one who loses--right? Especially if you *ever* climb on someone else's rope.

The link within the BD report no longer works--it would be interesting to see what is known about other acid-induced failures. Especially "how much acid" and "for how long." Your typical trailhead parking lot isn't exactly covered in pools of battery acid.

Actually, I'm intrigued. I'm going to take some old webbing and wrap it around my car battery and leave it there for a while. Stay tuned.

bearbreeder wrote: dont climb moderate multi in squamish

what IS that thing on that guy's harness? Looks like a double version of that weird Mammut elephant-trunk belay device?

Phil Esra wrote: what IS that thing on that guy's harness? Looks like a double version of that weird Mammut elephant-trunk belay device?

mammut alpine smartb

I wrap each biner in a thin layer of bubble wrap in order to prevent them from hitting against each other, the plastic and wood in the gym, and the rock on the occasions I go outside in order to minimize microfractures. Because I do this, I don't feel like they'll need to be replaced until after about 8 - 12 months of use. After I retire them, they go straight to the metal recycling center, not the trash. Because I care about the environment.

I wash my nylons and ropes once a week, so again, it doesn't feel necessary to replace them until after 8 - 12 months of use. But 6 months is reasonable. Better safe than sorry!! Retired ropes and nylons make great material for friendship bracelets and neck straps for sunglasses!

Locker wrote:"I get a new set of biners and nylons and a new rope at least once a year. What's your life worth, man? That's all I'm sayin', bro." Yeah! I should probably do that too. Hey! Do you think that it might be even better to replace them every six months? Maybe that's a better idea. Thanks for the advice! My first batch is already in the trash.

Race drivers have new tyres each race, hell they change them during the race as well.
My servants (I´m past the belay bunny age and rich anyway) carry the ropes to the cliff for each send and we pe-pack them and sell them over the internet as new afterwards. Surely everyboby does this?