Top roping 5.16

I've had moments where I could do the moves but I couldn't let go to clip the rope. Will top roping be the way to climb harder routes? Surely there's some 5.16 climbs that could be done but the act of clipping will keep it from happening. Will we need to rethink our ethics regarding leading vs. tr to get to the next level? Is leading that important compared to the quest for higher numbers? Obviously, this doesn't work on very steep or traversing routes so don't bother bringing up the dumb shit.

Why not just solo? Then you lose the weight of the harness as well

Are you trying to make a point that leading a sport route is contrived? I'd half agree even though you are just trolling. Still, I don't recall any routes I've redpointed recently or currently working on that would be drastically (a letter grade or more) easier if top roped.

MC Poopypants wrote:Obviously, this doesn't work on very steep or traversing routes so don't bother bringing up the dumb shit.

It would only be dumb shit if most 5.15s and potential 5.16s can be safely top roped (and the ones that can, if any, is also difficult to clip).

This is why people stick clip the first bolt, then skip clips higher up... Also, it really isn't very likely that there will be a route of such a grade that wouldn't be egregiously overhanging. As such, top roping really isn't that practical short of the stick clipped moves off the ground.

That said, beyond the obvious trolling, an example where this is essentially the case is "The Fly (5.14d/V14)" at Rumney. Clipping the second bolt on lead has traditionally been considered unreasonably difficult so climbers have lead the meat of the route essentially on top rope and do not make a single clip while on the route.

Top roping is definitely the way of the future. The hardest sends you see on my ticklist were done on TR. It absolutely works for steep routes as well. I stick clip my way up the route. When I hit the next bolt, I unclip the rope from the clip down, and replace it with a special velcro quickdraw and clip the rope into that guy. Do this all the way to the top (except for the anchors obviously lol). Then, when you're top roping the route you just climb through the draw and the velco draw will eventually rip off from your knot as you're passing. You end up with a bunch of the velcro draws dangling around your dingaling when you get to the top but whatre you gonna do.

Not trolling, just something I thought of last night during bong rips. It's just a hypothetical question. Would climbing at that level be so difficult that you couldn't clip the rope at which point it is time to consider a new approach? I'm talking sustained routes not just a boulder problem crux. Deep water soloing would allow this at angle.

I climb 5.16 all the time on top-rope. You use the assisted dyno method to get through the hard moves. See: youtu.be/bsAiOYXC-k0

I'd like to see a 5.15 somewhere that is vertical enough for top roping to be reasonable, at all. Your reasoning here smells of bong rips.

Great, you will never poop your pants again.

This question seems to assume that a 5.16 would be consistent throughout. I'm sure there would be a stance here and there to clip from.

Alexander Blum wrote:I'd like to see a 5.15 somewhere that is vertical enough for top roping to be reasonable, at all. Your reasoning here smells of bong rips.

I don't know of any 5.15s off the top of my head but there's plenty of vert 5.14+.

Example:

climbing.com/video/james-mc…

I'd imagine there is some slab/vert climb out there that is thin enough to be 5.15/5.16. I mean there is certainly slab/vert stuff that is impossibly thin -- just gotta find something right on the edge.

Tristan Baldwin wrote:(5.14d/V14)

I always laughed at that "5.11/V4". So which is it, a sport climb or a boulder problem?

20 kN wrote: I always laughed at that "5.11/V4". So which is it, a sport climb or a boulder problem?

In the case of The Fly (5.14d/V14), people do it both ways (either with pads or with bolts).

In Bishop there are some highballs that are almost always bouldered, but could also take marginal gear, so you'll see stuff in the book like "V5/5.12 R".

Makes sense to me.

Autobelay is the future.

Children please, we are dealing with a concept not logistics.

The concept is that at some point when pushing to climb the hardest route possible does the act of leading inhibit the ability to send said route?

So when considering this concept I think that we will never see the hardest routes possible climbed in lead style. That leaves top roping or deep water soloing as far as I can see. Bouldering is not constrained by the same circumstances and will allow for the exploration of what the true potential of difficulty is. But a problem is not a route, so whatever.

Clipping the first bolt IS top roping, pussies.

Ryan, you named one 14d, a grade that hasn't been cutting edge in over ten years. The vast, vast majority of 15a,b, and c routes are tremendously steep. The cutting edge has been pushed on a rope, on lead, for over thirty years right now. Armchair analysts always want to reinvent the wheel, but the edge has already been pushed to 15c,on a tremendously steep route.

Child, please...

Alexander Blum wrote:Ryan, you named one 14d, a grade that hasn't been cutting edge in over ten years. The vast, vast majority of 15a,b, and c routes are tremendously steep. The cutting edge has been pushed on a rope, on lead, for over thirty years right now. Armchair analysts always want to reinvent the wheel, but the edge has already been pushed to 15c,on a tremendously steep route.

To be honest, I don't climb 5.15 so I don't really know many 5.15 climbs off the top of my head. Just not something I'm terribly interested in. When I thought "really hard slab", that was the first thing that came to mind.

That being said, there is certainly vert/slab out there that is impossible to climb (think just a blank vert face with no holds). Logically, shouldn't there be some vert/slab that is *almost* impossible, but has just enough holds to go?

My armchair theory would be that for a variety of reasons, the people who climb 5.15 tend to seek out overhanging climbs for the most part. Just because no one has gone out and projected the shit out of some blank slab face and called it 5.15 doesn't mean that rock doesn't exist.

youtube.com/watch?v=zj2Zf9t…

Alexander Blum wrote:I'd like to see a 5.15 somewhere that is vertical enough for top roping to be reasonable, at all. Your reasoning here smells of bong rips.

I'll raise you 1" of MP e-dick and thrown in a pic of 5.15 slab!



Zero choss, easy approach, easy as hell to read the moves, tons of hot chicks to watch you take 50 footers, nice place to cool off after the send. What else do you want?

Looks pretty thin: