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Improving Jugging Effeciency (Or, How do people jug faster w/t 2 ascenders vs grigri&ascender)

Original Post
Jon Rhoderick · · Redmond, OR · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 966

In all my Jugging experience I have found a grigri and jug with a 2:1 built to be super easy, but I've seen people jug with two jugs way faster than I have ever gone. Watch some videos of Beth Rodden or Chris Mac run up ropes and you see what I mean.

I find that when I have 2 ascenders I am probably getting the top daisy height right (cam teeth around nose height), but I can't decide which steps are best for my feet. Often times I find grabbing the top of the upper ascender or even the rope above the ascender helps me. I don't feel like I am shifting my weight between the ascenders in an coordinated way, and the rope never seems to slide through the jugs.
My last jug was by far the worst, I had to loan out an ascender to a friend so my bottom jug was a Microscender, which was soul draining to say the least.
What am I doing wrong?

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Jon Rhoderick wrote:In all my Jugging experience I have found a grigri and jug with a 2:1 built to be super easy, but I've seen people jug with two jugs way faster than I have ever gone. Watch some videos of Beth Rodden or Chris Mac run up ropes and you see what I mean. I find that when I have 2 ascenders I am probably getting the top daisy height right (cam teeth around nose height), but I can't decide which steps are best for my feet. Often times I find grabbing the top of the upper ascender or even the rope above the ascender helps me. I don't feel like I am shifting my weight between the ascenders in an coordinated way, and the rope never seems to slide through the jugs. My last jug was by far the worst, I had to loan out an ascender to a friend so my bottom jug was a Microscender, which was soul draining to say the least. What am I doing wrong?
While facing the rope, typically you have your left foot in rung 3 and your right in rung 5, when referring to full-size aid aiders. This assumes the left ascender is on bottom and the right ascender is on top. If you are doing the leap frogging method, typically your feet would be in rung 4 on both aiders. If you are using alpine aiders, then you might use rung 3 and 4, depending on the aider. It's different for different sized aiders so I suggest checking out the "how to climb big wall" video series on Supertopo. There is a video on there that shows you how to set your ascenders and aiders up, and I used that video series to learn how to climb El Cap. The series is really useful. Most of what you need to know about basic aid can be had in that series.
Mickey Sensenbach · · San luis obispo CA · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 140

lean into the rock big time! to keep all the weight on your feet, you should not even be resting on your daisys every time you move the top jug up... unless it is overhanging!

the bottem ascender wont slide up on its own untill there is enough rope weight under it... that means when you just leave the ground or have just tied a back up knot it is frustrating as hell. what do you do? you put your thumb on the cam spiky rope gripping release thing and every time you move the bottem one up you realease it, move up, engage it, repeat...

keep practicing too, it will get easier!!!

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

Second vote for getting in over the rope, particularly on less than vertical stretches. Jug so you're not weighting the daisies at all and with your nose close to the rope and you can make some serious progress. Experiment with your top daisy as well, getting that length dialed was pretty key to getting more efficient for me.

Brent Butcher · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 275

I keep my top ascender at around 90% extension and I keep my bottom ascender right in front of my face/neck and I keep the daisy short on the 2nd ascender. I can go 100ft in a matter of 2 mins

Bas Cuela · · Fresno, CA · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 475
Mickey Sensenbach wrote:the bottem ascender wont slide up on its own untill there is enough rope weight under it... that means when you just leave the ground or have just tied a back up knot it is frustrating as hell. what do you do? you put your thumb on the cam spiky rope gripping release thing and every time you move the bottem one up you realease it, move up, engage it, repeat...
I just came off the Wash columen, I can atest that following is harder than leading most times due to this.
Moof · · Portland, OR · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 25

With practice you should be able to easily "run" up the rope with 2 jugs on slabby terrain. Get your weight over your feet and go for it.

Once it hits vertical, you will find this do-able, but strenuous depending on how much you can keep your feet pressed into the wall, and how barrel chested you are (I am very barrel chested). If your partner back cleaned a lot, or used long slings, expect that you'll likely revert to sitting on your top daisy a lot to keep your forearms from blowing out. Thumbing the lower jug is par for the course, get used to it and after a while it will be second nature.

When it is well into overhung, the gri-gri plus 2:1 on the top jug really comes into its own. You can still do the 2 jug method, but make sure you are very in shape since you really have to yard on things over and over.

With a little practice you can readily switch back and forth as needed mid-pitch. I use my gri-gri as my backup (and tied into the end of the rope), so I can switch simply by cinching up the gri-gri, stow the lower jug/aider, and clip the rope through a biner on the upper jug (I don't use a pulley generally).

Peter Zabrok · · Hamilton, ON · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 645

If you are jugging less than vertical, then the Yosemite system [properly tuned] is as fast and efficient as anything.

Once things get steep, or overhanging, you need to convert your Yosemite rig to the cavers' Frog system:

mountainproject.com/v/juggi…

You can use a sling or a bungy cord around your neck in place of the C26 Torse harness. You only need it to hold up the lower jug. The Frog is what you want to use if you are dangling free in space, like climbing a fixed rope back up to the top of the fourth pitch of Tangerine Trip for instance.

If you are cleaning a steep or overhanging aid pitch, then the fixed lead rope you are jugging while you clean will be zig-zagging all over the place. In this instance, using the Grigri as an ascender will make your life a lot easier! This is because you lift your jug over the first piece, cinch down on it with an adjustable daisy, and then you can simply open the lever on the Grigri to put slack in the rope, without ever un-safety-ing yourself.

Use this method for steep pitches where the rope zig-zags. If the pitch is nearly plumb, jug with Yosemite or Frog system.

If the lead rope is overhanging, and your feet don't touch the wall, pass the free end of the lead rope coming out of the Grigri through a DMM Revolver carabiner on your upper jug to make the 2:1 Yvette Ratchet.

You can see how to do this here, including a picture of the lovely Yvette aka Corvette, which alone is worth the price of a click. ;)

mountainproject.com/v/the-b…

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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