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Climbing Gyms Aren’t the Problem Assholes Are

Original Post
Michael Ryan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 7

You know that recurring internet rant about gym-trained climbers and how they are to blame for war, world hunger and poverty?

This the link to post when you see one:

http://eveningsends.com/climbing/climbing-gyms-arent-problem-assholes/

Micahisaac · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 80

try this link: eveningsends.com/climbing/c…

Another article responding to Noble's article: climbingbusinessjournal.com…

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

like I tell the old crusties who hate everything new-> STFU, if you guys had kept quiet and spent more time on the rock than self promoting so everyone would think you are soooooo god damn extreme the sport would not have exploded like it did. deal with it or go play golf.

Rob Cotter · · Silverthorne, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 240

I pre-date climbing gyms by at least a decade and there were arseholes a-plenty in them thar early days...

mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

"You see this misdirected blame everywhere in this sport."

I blame misdirected blame!

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

I did not read the article but as someone who has been involved with access issues for a long time it was often observed by many that the early climbers came from an outdoor background thus had a pretty strong environmental ethic. That was true for the most part through the 80s. Since then climbing has become more main stream, that trend continues today with the gyms. Thus the issue as how to educate new users has been around well before the gym movement. The gyms may well be making it more prominent but not I not I would say it is the cause. (BITD the sport climbers got all the hate, now it is the gym climbers.)

With new users come climbers with and without the necessary outdoor ethics. Uncontrolled kids and dogs, loud music, smoking, garbage, yard sale gear, etc. have been an issue for years. No different than other new "urban" outdoor users. LIke last year driving up Big Cottonwood Canyon on a Sunday afternoon, a mother and two teenage girls are tagging a rock right next to the road. WTF??? We stop and tell them that what they are doing is illegal and to clean up their mess. They were not crackheads but stereotypical white clean cut Utahans (Utards is the local vernacular). Later that week I went up and cleaned the rest of their mess up.

The two consistent issues I typically see at the crags are the damn yard sales and people TR off of the rap gear rather than using their own draws. Only the latter is due being a noob.

rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210

Let's see, what's the phrase I am looking for? Oh ya, I love climbing but man do a fricking hate climbers.

Joe De Luca · · yucca valley · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 127

I have climbed for 25 years now and I find the big problem is all the meetup groups not the gym climbers,who in there right mind brings groups with 25 to 100 people and top rope all the climbs that are five ten and under for the hole day, thank god I can climb upto 5.13 but some days I just want to have a fun day climbing easy stuff.but I do know the gym climbers are way into the hole meetup seen out in SoCal so If you are gym climber who is into meetup groups you are going to get all the good crags shut down by your impact, keep the group small like 3 to 5 people and your good if not you suck.

oldfattradguuy kk · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 170
Allen Sanderson wrote:I did not read the article but as someone who has been involved with access issues for a long time it was often observed by many that the early climbers came from an outdoor background thus had a pretty strong environmental ethic. That was true for the most part through the 80s. Since then climbing has become more main stream, that trend continues today with the gyms. Thus the issue as how to educate new users has been around well before the gym movement. The gyms may well be making it more prominent but not I not I would say it is the cause. (BITD the sport climbers got all the hate, now it is the gym climbers.) With new users come climbers with and without the necessary outdoor ethics. Uncontrolled kids and dogs, loud music, smoking, garbage, yard sale gear, etc. have been an issue for years. No different than other new "urban" outdoor users.
Well said!
robrobrobrob · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 10

I wonder how many people who hate gym climbers in the out doors go out of their way to introduce them to the outdoor version of the sport, it's ethics,and behaviors.

Seems the solution to modifying behaviors lies in having people instruct and model those behaviors.

Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161

These are great articles. Thank you for sharing.

Clifton Santiago · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0

The folks that pioneered recreational climbing were following the pioneers of explorational climbing. Their early ethic and technique adapted the purely utilitarian techniques of the previous generation, but modified and limited these techniques to pursue the "sporting" aspect of climbing. The "sporting" aspect of climbing then self-limited itself to pure technique, which has logically boiled down a pure physicality almost devoid of the exploratory origins of the endeavor itself. The pure physicality of climbing is only a shadow of the spirit of climbing. There is a struggle for the soul of climbing, with the pure physical crowd gaining number grades and gymnastic prowess due to the advances in safety and media exposure.

A gym is, by definition, a place of practice. It has devolved, or maybe evolved, into a place of achievement, with little to no real relevance to the spirit of explorational, or even recreational, climbing.
There is an aching among those accomplished gymnastic, indoor oriented climbers, to translate their prowess to the "real rock". The purely functional and achievement oriented drive of their endeavor is challenged by the safety and partnership and, dare I say, adventure and mortal reality, of putting more on the line than their max VO2, or "pump factor".
This challenges their mental faculties, their commitment to really putting it on the line, and has resulted in frustration at being technically proficient, but really lacking any intestinal fortitude to find the same accolades on the rock that they found in the gym.
I was a whiz in biz school, too. It got way more uncomfortable when I invested my own funds.

MaxQ · · plain sight · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 75
youtu.be/fenjnYUvQQQ
:)
#theBetaDood
rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210

... There is a struggle for the soul of climbing...

Not for me there isn't. Climbing falls right in line with all of my other human powered outdoor activities. Besides it's not too hard to get away from these groups. Beyond a 15 minutes approach they all but disappear, not because they are lazy but because they have a much different reason for being outdoors than me.

I like where you are going with it though.

.

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
Clifton Santiago wrote:The folks that pioneered recreational climbing were following the pioneers of explorational climbing. Their early ethic and technique adapted the purely utilitarian techniques of the previous generation, but modified and limited these techniques to pursue the "sporting" aspect of climbing. The "sporting" aspect of climbing then self-limited itself to pure technique, which has logically boiled down a pure physicality almost devoid of the exploratory origins of the endeavor itself. The pure physicality of climbing is only a shadow of the spirit of climbing. There is a struggle for the soul of climbing, with the pure physical crowd gaining number grades and gymnastic prowess due to the advances in safety and media exposure. A gym is, by definition, a place of practice. It has devolved, or maybe evolved, into a place of achievement, with little to no real relevance to the spirit of explorational, or even recreational, climbing. There is an aching among those accomplished gymnastic, indoor oriented climbers, to translate their prowess to the "real rock". The purely functional and achievement oriented drive of their endeavor is challenged by the safety and partnership and, dare I say, adventure and mortal reality, of putting more on the line than their max VO2, or "pump factor". This challenges their mental faculties, their commitment to really putting it on the line, and has resulted in frustration at being technically proficient, but really lacking any intestinal fortitude to find the same accolades on the rock that they found in the gym. I was a whiz in biz school, too. It got way more uncomfortable when I invested my own funds.
Very eloquent for a troll post I must say.

*golf clap*
J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

The only way I manage to convince myself that I am a worth while individual and climber is by convincing myself that everyone else is inferior because of their impure background.

Dam those kids with their loud rock music and bluejeans. How dare they drive so fast!! I mean really. Back in my day we used to respect our elders.

Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 2,419

the advent of the pulling on plastic to train for the rock was the 1st stab of the thousands that now so disfigure "climbing"as to make it unrecognizable to many of us who sought to get away from the banality of the normalcy shoot, the sucking sphincter that leaks stuff like the gym rats .
all the ego boosting and self-agrandizing is what has led to the loss of any purity that may have existed
it was '82 or '83 ? and some poor cowboys with talent and education started the hero stuff in order to derive sponsorship $$ and offset climbing costs so that today a profession beyond teaching the activity is possible. The guide/teaching thing is equally as at fault for ruining Climbing as is the need to get paid for doing what one loves. As I am now an old climber who remembers and misses the smaller community that was so much more dedicated to keeping it all to ourselves; I can only rant here and turn away from my most beloved areas as they careen down the normalcy shoot to arrive in a heap at the lowest level of human activity. Rules, guide books,ratings and the need to control the herd are all the evils that had nobel intentions but have in fact taken the spirit of the activity to this new paradise. cheers to the Knuckle draggers how ruined resort skiing and led to the opening of the out of bonds. and if to love it, you have to kill it, then kill it with the most modern technology,swiftest and most completely. Bolt, bolt with gas power tools Bolt with no regard for what has been done in any other style retro bolt and place them next to cracks that take gear bring the gym outside for real.
the point is that you never really no what you had, till it's gone! So lets all get on with it, SHUT UP and CLIMB even if it is just out of bed.rant complete?

rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210

Did Michael just go all Compressor Route on us?

ze dirtbag · · Tahoe · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 50

^^^i think so.....

Eldo Love · · Mancos,CO · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 125

There is a huge difference between a climber and someone who climbs

Eldo Love · · Mancos,CO · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 125

There is a huge difference between a climber and someone who climbs

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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