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The Devils Lake top rope cluster Fu&k thread...

Tito Krull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 5
Megan Buckets wrote:hey! anyone want to climb this week?! I am flying in from Salt Lake City and am bringing my rope and rack... unlike the kooks you've seen out setting terrible and dangerous TR anchors, I am competent and experienced. I have a wedding on Friday and family stuff on Saturday... available tuesday-thursday and sunday-monday. Megan megan.c.johnston@gmail.com
Hey Megan if I can find a ride down there I am totally down to climb I'm free all the time, my email is titokrull@hotmail.com and my number is 920 250 1621feel free to use both.
Tito Krull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 5

Yo people gonna be hitting the lake on Thursday through Monday looking to splitting campsite hit me up by phone 920 250 1621 have rope and gear

Double J · · Sandy, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 3,931

Let's get this going again! "Quality" humor while at work, and just happy that the engineers at the climbing companies over build gear so people don't actually get hurt while participating in this sport...

A nice little pic from this past week sent to me from a friend.

open gate!

Tom Lausch · · Madison WI · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 170

Not sure whats worse. The open gate, or the fact that even if they did flip it the spine would be loaded across that rock edge. Either way you have got to love the sh** show that happens every weekend at the lake.

Paul Leverich · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 10

That looks bomber compared to some stuff I've seen. The worst anchor was directly under balanced rock I watched the guy lower his girlfriend off and he asked if I wanted to take a ride before they left I topped out and took one look at one sling tied around balanced rock and the rope run through the sling no biners. He asked if I wanted to lower off. I said f**K no and tried to explain that he could have killed his girlfriend. I can only guess the fact it was a new rope with a waxy dry treatment kept the friction down.

Capt. Impatient · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

I'll remember this thread and take some pictures this year. Last year I saw a boyscout group with two anchor webbings running back and that's great only both points went to the same 3 inch tree. Also the group that had no clue that the routes at the lake are name and have a ratings. Their anchors where a whole other story. The cordellete looked like a cross all points were 90 degrees or more.

EB · · Winona · Joined Jan 2002 · Points: 1,207

I was as usual appalled by what I saw at the east bluff last weekend. The boyscout groups were a junk show as usual but what was way worse were the groups led by "guides" teaching anchor courses. They have very little knowledge of current techniques and would have had many automatic fails in any professional climbing guide or instructor certification exam. How the hell do people run these organizations? Its sad when you have to thank people for simply setting up solid and safe TR anchors....

Terry Kieck · · Baraboo · Joined Jul 2002 · Points: 170

Thoroughfare "set up" mid last last week.

The tree at the top near edge had one single sling wrapped around the tree a bunch of times with both ends clipped for the entire anchor. They did have two opposed biners though... Plus it wasn't even at the base of the tree is was about 3 feet up adding more stress to the one tree anchor that leans over the cliff edge!

alpinejason · · Minneapolis · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 176

What's the solution to this? It's easy to sit back and laugh or cringe at these terrible anchors, but how does the DL rock climbing community make this better?

I'll typically only say something to these parties if they're actually unsafe and can potentially injure someone. It's usually not worth the argument. People are defensive. You've all been there I'm sure.

I teach anchoring at the lake, albeit not very often because people don't want to pay for something they think they already know or might be able to figure out on their own. One of the best teaching elements I do as part of my course is walk around and look at other anchor setups after we've had the morning to discuss and practice.

The Lake is getting more crowded and bad anchoring techniques are propagating. Those we criticize in this thread aren't on MP to read of their mistakes or learn from others. How do we inform and educate these climbers and trip leaders?

Doug Hemken · · Madison, WI · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 13,668
Terry Kieck wrote: Thoroughfare "set up" mid last last week. The tree at the top near edge had one single sling wrapped around the tree a bunch of times with both ends clipped for the entire anchor. They did have two opposed biners though... Plus it wasn't even at the base of the tree is was about 3 feet up adding more stress to the one tree anchor that leans over the cliff edge!
Terry, I have to admit that was me ... it was a rap anchor and the only gear I had on hand. It was high for ease of rapping. Funny enough, none of the "kids" used it, just me!
Doug Hemken · · Madison, WI · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 13,668

It's tough knowing what to say about ungraceful anchors, even with people in your own group. On the one hand, I want new folks to learn to set boringly solid anchors that are quick, efficient, and rely mainly on gear not trees. On the other hand, I want them to be encouraged to think for themselves, to understand when less-than-perfect is still acceptable ... and maybe to see what happens when an anchor point fails (just one anchor point out of three, please) so they can better visualize what they are guarding against.

When I teach people statistical programming, I accept answers other than my preferred answer as long as it's not horribly inefficient. And I like them to see some of the error messages they will inevitably have to deal with in real programming work. What counts most is that they thought it through themselves and came up with the correct final answer.

With friends new to climbing, I often take the approach "that'll work, but here's why I would have done this." With people I don't know, I seldom intervene unless I think someone will get hurt ... either climbers or someone hiking the trail!

James Schroeder · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined May 2002 · Points: 3,166

My typical response (or lack thereof) to bad anchors depends on my evaluation of the probability of failure. I rate and respond to anchors in this way.

  • I would comfortably and repeatedly tie my wife, son and self into that and factor two onto it.
  • I would comfortably and repeatedly factor two onto it. (This is the minimum I accept for climbing, even on top rope)
  • I am sufficiently comfortable being in the vicinity because I think that anchor will fail only about 1 in 10,000 times.
  • I am uncomfortable being in the vicinity because I think that anchor will fail 1 in 1,000 times. (This is where I tend to say something or leave the vicinity)
  • You or your friends are going to die today (Say something)
  • You or your friends are going to die right now (Say something)

The few times I have said something to strangers I have not gotten a positive response. At that point I tend to walk away if I think the anchor is bad enough - I do not want to be around for someone's big ride. People are sketchy, I am surprised we do not have more accidents. The fact is there is no reason not to have SERENE top rope anchor at Devil's Lake, anything less is laziness or incompetence. A few times I have made the mistake of hopping on a top rope sight unseen and been terrified upon topping out to see the setup. Now, if I or someone I trust a lot did not setup or check out the anchor I do not climb on it.
James Schroeder · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined May 2002 · Points: 3,166
Chris treggE wrote:James did you hit them on the head with a tack hammer? Man it's nice out. Being a working stiff blows. I'd like to be out screwing up a toprope anchor.
If I only had one in my pack. And yes it was nice out today, I got up to the East about 3pm and down a little after 8pm. Not a climber up there outside of the folks I was hanging with.
Tom Lausch · · Madison WI · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 170
The Cluster Part

The F**ked Part

Take a look at these gems! The crabs at the anchor point had at least 1 locker and 1 hardware store abomination. The cord they were using appeared to be almost brand new 11 mil.
Travis Kaney · · Green Bay, WI · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 420
I cant even...

A thing of beauty!
Tom Lausch · · Madison WI · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 170

I love the opposite opposed locker that is going through one piece. Must have been running low on slings! HA

Al Wiberg · · Chippewa Falls, WI · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 5

It still amazes me how social media works. I took this photo back in early June while assisting with a PCIA course on Brinton's and posted to Facebook and now it made it here!

Devils Lake is a fantastic place to climb and a great place to teach anchor courses for this reason! Students get plenty of opportunities to walk around and critique poorly constructed anchors and see how they can improve the marginal ones.

If you are new to climbing and even a "seasoned" climber, please look a taking a professional level climbing course from an organization such as PCIA, AMGA or PCGI. All these organizations offer great courses and you will be amazed how much you will learn!

Ta Bloodstone · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 75
Silent Destroyer · · Appleton, WI · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 260

These sketchy anchors remind me of some that I've seen people set at high cliff from time to time just a few weeks ago I came up on an older guy which surprised me slightly but age doesn't necessarily equal experience who had a 15 foot piece of webbing tied to a bench and a old biner not even over the edge of the sharp cliff face so his rope was rubbing on the edge and was rappelling down to belay his 16 year old kids, what a great dad (sarcastically)

al grahn · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 0

Andreis, you really squeezed a pimple here, didn't you? I've been climbing at the Lake for about 35 years. So I guess I'm an "old geezer". I don't see this as a conflict between the "Geezers" and the "Young Guns". Climbing is multidimensional. If you've only climbed in the gym and at sport crags, you've only explored one dimension. There is, and should be, room in the wide world of climbing for practitioners of all the styles and dimensions of the sport we all love, from high altitude mountaineering to alpine climbing, to hard crag climbing with gear only, to aid climbing, etc. Thankfully, I meet and talk to young climbers who are interested in all of these other aspects of the sport. For many climbers learning to set top rope anchors is the first step toward exploring the wider world off climbing. It's safe to say that no one would go to an area that has been developed as a sport crag and start pulling bolts. The bolt wars were hashed out in the nineties. Likewise, not every climb and every crag needs to be safe for democracy. Many people of all ages and levels of experience crave the sense of adventure and satisfaction that comes from mastering the skills necessary to do routes that require much more than the power and gymnastic ability to pull hard moves. I think all of us who consider ourselves traditionalists respect sport climbing as a fun and valid style of climbing. So, Andreis, I think you owe the same respect to the many people of all ages who stand behind the established Devils Lake ethic. In the words of my good friend Tommy "back down chumpster!" As has been pointed out, it is moot anyway.

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