Beyond dirtbagging: A sustainable future for climbers

Anybody out there read "The Good Life" by Helen and Scott Nearing? Why can't we do this on some of the land owned the AF or something? Community based homesteading near climbing areas. Build houses, grow food, climb. Anybody already doing this?

I've always wondered about this. I figured climbers would just want to climb too much to make it work though.

I am down you name the place and when to start. I am a plumber too so we can figure out something for showers and everything else.

Communes typically work well until one person ruins it by smuggling in a hacky sack. After this happens no work ever gets done and the whole thing falls apart.

Because, water. Someone else already owns the rights to what little falls on or percolates up from the ground on which you'd like to do this on. So you need a tank to store the water you buy, and that's where the plan falls apart.

Old and Busted wrote:Because, water. Someone else already owns the rights to what little falls on or percolates up from the ground on which you'd like to do this on. So you need a tank to store the water you buy, and that's where the plan falls apart.

Water rights are much more reasonable east of the mississippi. Out west it would be an issue but you just have to get enough land to get permits for a well or maybe an acre of irrigation or livestock use then set up a communal well.

There are intentional communities out there just not climber specific ones yet.

Get planning! Just don't do it in Colorado because there's no water.

Climbers, for the most part, are inherently lazy and selfish. This isn't a knock on climbers (I am one), it's just intrinsic.

Lazy and selfish are not good qualities for commune workers.

Obviously I don't understand the technicalities of various land arangements but it does seem that climber based organizations own or oversee quite a bit of land throughout the US. Don't they also own water rights in some cases? For sure this only works well in certain areas of the country.

I think as far as cross sections of the population goes climbers are perfect for this. Climbers are not lazy or selfish, we are highly motivated and concerned. We also represent about every trade, profession, educational, and experiencial background. Many climbers want to live like this anyway but don't have the means.

If you haven't read the book I highly recommend it. Far more inspiring than Honnold's latest solo.

Yey for climbing communes near climbing destinations, run by peeps like Alf!

I have at times fantasized about creating such a thing, but having no way to fund it makes for a pretty short daydream. Plus, I get annoyed at the way a lot of people behave. I am not very "flexible" when it comes to people being selfish,lazy or sloppy. I enjoy people in small doses, so the idea of living with a bunch of them is...uhhh, no.

Intentional communities take a lot of work and organization, and certain types of people, but it certainly could be done. They exist in urban areas as well as out in the more rural. This website has some information for the person interested.

Intersting website I'll have to check it out later.

The vision I had last night was of a climber based homestead with a big ass farm that would ultimately become an educational area where people can experience alternative lifestyles. Farm would be a working CSA that is open to the larger local community. There would be lots of educational possiblities from farming and homesteading to wilderness ethics and climbing instruction.

These things could get set up all over the country and climbers that desired this tyoe of life could travel between or stay longer term as long as they follow the code. The code is based on principals described in The Good Life.

It's an attempt to find a true balance between a productive life where our effort support us rather than create wealth for a few and enjoyment of the activity we are all so "passionate" about. Dirtbags could grow their own vegetables instead of eating canned tuna, sleep in a shelter instead of van.

It's not far off from some campgrounds I visited in Europe. Picture Siurana with a farm and a few more simple buildings, stay as long as you work 2 hrs. a day. Not much different than building a yurt at shelf rd. Not that crazy or impossible.

Homestead idea is awesome. Although it should be Christian based, with an agnostic camp option. Agnostics will have an option not to participate in prayer or Bible study groups. 12 step meetings could be incorporated as well. Everyone would have to abide by the moral code based on teachings of Christ. Tried and true. Why invent the wheel? Van village area is a must!

sharkfin wrote:Homestead idea is awesome. Although it should be Christian based, with an agnostic camp option. Agnostics will have an option not to participate in prayer or Bible study groups. 12 step meetings could be incorporated as well. Everyone would have to abide by the moral code based on teachings of Christ. Tried and true. Why invent the wheel? Van village area is a must!

Or, or, or we could keep religion out of it. Rely on each other as moral human beings without interference from religion as to not alienate anyone and be welcoming to all who would carry their own weight. Not everything needs to be run by your sky-daddy.

I did not say it is a religious based homestead. The principles are Christian based. Now, if some people want to pray or play drums or do whatever as long as it is within those set of principles it is all good. 12 step meetings could be used for meditative purposes as well as for anonymous sharing (what you hear there stays there)....hey everybody got something to get off their chest.

You very much did say it should be religion based. But as to not derail I'll leave with this: Not everyone is of your culture, your religion, your creed, or your standard. I've only been climbing for roughly four years and in that time I've met a large myriad of people. Many of them were jewish, many christian, many atheist, many muslim, and a few odds and ends. Never once did their religious backgrounds become a concern when climbing with them, hell it was never even brought up when at the gym or the crag. Incorporating a strict religious precedent into a climber homestead would only cripple it.

Christian principles in core with freedom to express your religion or the lack of it is what I said. Now, not to knock on some religions , but supremacy of one race, creed or religion over others would not be tolerated. Everyone is created equal.

Wait, what just happened?

Some stuff and some things, and a little bit of both mixed up.

We are trying to create a perfect society ;)

Andrew, you're arguing w the resident Looney Tunes Elleanor (sharkfin)
and her BF Ryan (Poopy).

There's probably better uses of your time.

Yes, young one, your brain is most likely totally overwhelmed right about now, so let me put it simply: the set of moral values is necessary in every society small or large. Without it people will not have a way of treating each other fairly and thus will become self destructive as a whole. No scary "religion" word here. I said Christian basis because it's tried and true and pretty simple to follow. I would incorporate 12 step program because of prevalence of addictive personalities in climbing culture. Besides, it just feels good to cry with strangers and empathize while realizing how lucky you are actually. You don't have to be religious to be there. It's human nature.