Belaying above TR bolts

Setup- 2 bomber bolted anchors on the top of the climb (horizontal part above rock face). The top is flat with plenty of room to walk around. I want to belay from the top in order to move more quickly from route to route (have to rappel in and climb out. No access from bottom of climb). I am trying to rig it with some sort of redirect to introduce some friction and not belay direct from the harness with an ATC. Im thinking the only way would be a hanging belay off the top shelf of the master point. Any other thoughts on how to rig this? I'd prefer to stand on top if possible. Whats the good, bad and ugly? Thanks in advance for your input. Pic attached

Bump!

Nothing like bumping a post that's been up for twenty minutes...

I'm trying to follow what you're asking - but I don't believe that there would be a way to belay from the top without belaying from the harness. I wouldn't even suggest doing a hanging belay.

mtnguide.net/lowering-belay…

Hang from the anchor, and belay in guide mode. Not that difficult.

FrankPS wrote:Hang from the anchor, and belay in guide mode. Not that difficult.

Yup.

You DON'T want to be above the bolts. Remember, A-B-C. Anchor-belayer-climber (in that order i.e in line that way)

Thank you. Kinda what I figured. Great video

FrankPS wrote:Hang from the anchor, and belay in guide mode. Not that difficult.

if you belay someone in guide mode make sure you know and are practiced in lowering the climber while the rope is under tension ...

or someone may get stuck ...

dont assume you know how as theres been accidents with folks attempting to release a loaded autoblock device

practice it

to the OP ... get someone in real life who is experienced to show you and double check your setup

unless you are practiced in lowering off the autoblock, stick to a redirect belay

also belaying off the harness requires practice, folks have been dropped when their belayers coudnt handle the change in direction of the brake

;)

In the picture above, there are a second set of bolts back from the edge. Assuming you want the line where the chains are, why not use those and save yourself the hanging belay? Rig a short anchor (clove hitches with the rope would do nicely there), belay with a grigri or munter right off the anchor. Tie yourself in so you can dangle your feet over the edge. Pad the lip, and plan for your climber to top-out - lowering would put alot of unnecessary wear on your rope.

Larry,
I like this idea a bit better. My concern would be the motion of pulling the slack through the gri gri. I feel like the gri gri would be sliding all over as I pull. Am I over analyzing it?

Bearbreader,
Thanks for the concern. I def will practice this setup. This place that I goto is super easy climbs with huge ledges every 20' or so all the way down. I go there not for a good day of climbing but to practice different setups.

The GriGri is a fantastic device for belaying directly from the anchor. It's super smooth to pull in rope. You need to be careful that the device's pivot arm is free to move to engage the brake- a master point that positions the GriGri hanging in space out of contact with the rock is ideal. To lower, redirect the brake strand as was demonstrated with the ATC Guide in the video above. Always close the system by either tying in to the back end of the rope, clipping it back to the anchor, or at least placing a stopper knot in the end.

The decision of what to do, IMO, depends on what is over the edge (i.e. out of the view of this picture). If there is any kind of ledge below the lip, it is probably better to have your feet down there. Then, you can use either a redirect method, or an autoblock method, once you are in that position.
If there is nothing down there below that edge, (where the chains are hanging) it would be very uncomfortable hanging down there over the edge. You almost never see that done in an area that has just single pitch climbs (unless there is something to stand on just below the top of the specific climb that you are on).
I agree that, belaying from the top, you can rack up a lot of climbs more quickly. Some of my local areas are configured exactly like this (but with no bolts at the top). Us locals got very good at belaying off of our harness when necessary! In a case like yours, though, you could sit at the edge, facing away from the edge, with your feet towards those rappel bolts. Use the rap bolts for a redirect. Tie yourself to either set of bolts somehow.

As mentioned above, any auto blocking device (atc guide etc) or assisted breaking device (gri gri etc.) is probably better used off the harness anytime hanging it at/or above your waist isn't an option.
I usually just extend myself off the anchor on top, until I could be close to, and or look over the lip and observe the second. Then just belay off the harness. This may sound uncomfortable, but experiment with it. I have always found that one leg over the lip, with the opposite side hand working the brake is quick and effective. Just be sure to keep your hands, legs, and any other especially sensitive body parts from being pinned between rope and rock in the event of loading.
This technique can easily be adapted to a stang belay position, on top, with some experimentation.
Hope this helps.
-Mackley

I recognize this location as Alapocas.

"I feel like the gri gri would be sliding all over as I pull."

What do you mean by this? You TR belay with a Grigri the same as you do an ATC

Quick sketch of the belay discussed above. Cloves on the rope work well here because of the orientation of the bolts to the climb. You could make an anchor separate from the rope.

The grigri will move a bit, but you're right there with it. Make sure the cam doesn't get blocked, and don't let go of the brake strand.

That looks like a pretty good seat at the top. I count that as a bomber piece, maybe two. Assuming you have your end of the rope, you can place a single piece or sling a tree, even if it's meters away from the edge. Then just sit and belay off your harness.

I think people really underestimate the holding power you get by just belaying from a good seat. I've caught followers that weigh nearly 250 this way, and my body soaked up 80-100% of the weight.

Alexander Blum wrote:http://mtnguide.net/lowering-belaying-ouray-ice-park-part-1/

Interesting that she leaves the rope/keeper-loop locker through the powerpoint when bringing the climber up. This doesn't seem a good idea. If something goes wrong the powerpoint is where she or someone else might clip in to sort things out - as the powerpoint is always seen as THE safe place to clip. This might just be a friend walking over for a chat and clipping his daisy in to stay safe. If the power point is the then weighted the belay plate will release and drop the climber, or at least remove him from being belayed.

Just re-watched the video, and it seems to me that it would be trivial to clip into the top shelf, even with a climber weighting the rope.

Locker wrote:"I've caught followers that weigh nearly 250 this way, and my depends soaked up 80-100% of the crap." Hmm. I'm going to have to get myself a box.

OK, I have to ask... Are you making fun of me?

Sorry for the delay. I was locked out for a bit.
Larry thank you very much for the diagram. I know exactly what's going on now. I just had it in my head to always drop the master point over the edge. I never thought to rig it on top so I can sit at an angle to the master point behind me. All classes and people I ever learned from always said to keep the master point over the edge. I was just thing too much in the box. Thanks again for everyone's 2 cents

af8567 wrote:Sorry for the delay. I was locked out for a bit. Larry thank you very much for the diagram. I know exactly what's going on now. I just had it in my head to always drop the master point over the edge. I never thought to rig it on top so I can sit at an angle to the master point behind me. All classes and people I ever learned from always said to keep the master point over the edge. I was just thing too much in the box. Thanks again for everyone's 2 cents

Have the masterpoint before the edge may put substantial wear on yr rope and risk damaging it .... Especially if yr climber is hangdogging

Rememebr that the padding needs to stay in place should you use it and itll damage the padding as well if you use things like jackets if theres enough rubbing

Honestly, just belay from the bottom, it may be faster than trying to do some fancy setup

;)