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What you SHOULDN'T Do on Big Walls...

Original Post
Shire-mon · · Moab, UT / Boone, NC · Joined May 2008 · Points: 50

So there are a million resources now for learning about aid and big wall climbing before setting out, but what I am interested in is **ADvice from Veterans** about things to avoid while on a big wall. THINGS YOU SHOULDN'T do. Dangerous things to look out for when setting up systems, leading, following, hauling,, etc. When accidents happen while big wall climbing, what are little things that should have been avoided or not missed? I think its just as crucial to learn about what not to do, as it is what you should do. So, what do you all have for me? This is a general discussion, but PLEASE do not highjack the subject or respond with anything but positive input! Thanks.

-Brett

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669

don't bail

Mickey Sensenbach · · San luis obispo CA · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 140

I aint no veterain but from what I have learned...

never trust just one thing, back up haul, back up jugs, back up self belay...

dont sew it up on easy pitches (unless you have crazy amounts of gear...)

dont do frantic things, slow and smart.

1 more thing... the hardest of things...

try not to get scarred and freaked out! (I struggle with this step a lot!!)

Tug · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0

Think about the concequences of your actions before you do something.

Moof · · Portland, OR · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 25

Don't get dead.

Mostly it boils down to setting realistic goals, hitting them, and not quitting.

So many "don't do" things are hard to think of, as common sense and experience eliminates them from the equation.

A few I can think of:

1) Don't rap or jug a line held by a hauler, usually only an issue if soloing. Pre-threading is fine of you are rapping the haul line while soloing, but don't engage the cam and set a load release knot to hold you. After freeing the bags and cleaning the pitch you can engage the cam and release the knot to start hauling. If the cam of the hauler slips because of a jolt (sudden stop while rapping for example) it can shred the rope and shock load things, maybe giving you the chop.

2) Don't screw your partner at lower outs or when back-cleaning. If your partner has to lower out from a fixed piece, make sure there is a decent tie off there for them to do so (don't be cheap). Trying to thread a tie-off (if you have one) through the eye of a pin with a loaded biner on it is a real hassle and a major time waster. Even using long slings on very overhung or traversing terrain can leave your follower in a bad position to clean stuff.

3) Don't fix ropes using existing tat rap-slings. It messes up the rap station and is not worth it. The worst I saw was a gal who came up behind me on the first pitch of Tangerine Trip. She clipped a locker into a single piece of 7mm sun bleached cord and tied off her partner into that and called it good. Horrifying.

4) Don't clip bolts with a single biner if you can at all avoid it. If the line of bolts is overhanging, or leaning at all it makes cleaning more difficult and frustrating than needed. Bring the right number of draws, or sacrifice a cam plus a free biner to make a draw.

5) Don't take daisy falls. Most are avoidable (if not all?). If the next piece is at all dicey you should thoroughly test it, clip the rope into the lower piece, unclip your lower daisy, and only then extend out your daisy (I only use adjustables, YMMV). I try to never have a slack daisy clipped to anything. Chris Mac pushes a sequence that is less cluster prone than what i use, but exposes you to a longer fall if the top piece pops, your choice. My style is slow, but if you are looking for advice on the interwebs, you are not likely trying to set speed records. My goal is to get back from vacation in one piece, not to set speed records.

6) Don't struggle. With enough practice you should not be brute forcing any of the aiding or cleaning sequence. Top-stepping is strenuous for sure, but that is very different than struggling. Cleaning should not burn out your forearms, if it does you are likely struggling as the result of bad technique or poor setup.

7) Don't yell at your partner. If they are just moving slow, understand that they are likely doing the best they can. Encouragement is OK, even ribbing, but yelling at someone who is taking a little too long to setup an anchor, or get the haul setup is generally counter-productive. If you partner is frazzled from the lead, they likely need the extra time to make sure the anchor setup is not stupid or unsafe, or to make sure they don't drop something. On the other hand, if they are just chronically too slow for your taste, just go find a different partner for the next wall.

david goldstein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 2,541

Somethings you'll have to figure on the wall, but others can be dialed in before you leave home e.g. an efficient jumar setup or becoming very proficient in setting up the portaledge while hanging in slings. Expecting to figure it all out on the wall is a recipe for failure and/or epic while having some degree of proficiency in the basics considerably increases your chances of having an enjoyable and successful experience.

A couple of specifics I remember from my big wall days/phase two decades ago:
Packing and racking at home is likely to save you day; in one case we started driving from the Front Range of Colorado after the normal end of work and, since we were fully packed and read to go, were able to jump on El Cap first thing the next morning. This running start allowed us to beat a huge, unexpected storm (barely) and finish our route. If we'd futzed around racking and packing in El Cap meadow that first day we would have ended up bailing part way up the route and rapping through waterfalls.
Don't clip in too short and/or don't "lock" yourself into an anchor somehow or other. I recall a miserable haul on another EC route where I had about 6" of play in my setup because of some bodge with how I clipped into the anchor; this mistake was so limiting that the haul essentially had to wait for my partner to finish cleaning the pitch, a waste of maybe 15 minutes.

One of my favorite aphorisms: The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton.

Mickey Sensenbach · · San luis obispo CA · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 140

"I recall a miserable haul on another EC route where I had about 6" of play in my setup because of some bodge with how I clipped into the anchor; this mistake was so limiting that the haul essentially had to wait for my partner to finish cleaning the pitch, a waste of maybe 15 minutes. "

that same thing happened to me! well, my partner! after leading the first pitch of the leaning tower he had the same problem!

Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161

Don't learn to big wall climb on the nose.

Greg DeMatteo · · W. Lebanon, NH · Joined May 2007 · Points: 315

Don't follow the Kor Roof if you haven't practiced cleaning overhangs/traverses on jugs.

Elliott Bates · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 246

+1 on the not bailing advice. Part of the early stages of big walling is just continuing to go up, no matter how long it's taking you to get to the bivy. Get there at 1am if you have to, then wake up and do it again. Make a plan for what bivys you'll make that day and get there. No bailing because you're slow.

One little thing that can F you if you don't pay attention: make sure the haul line runs cleanly from the previous anchor to your belay. It's easy to rush at this stage- you're tired and thirsty after a long lead and you just want to get the pig. ...Watch for flakes that the haul line get caught on, especially on traversing pitches. I didn't do this once and told my partner to release the bag. He did, but the rope was running over a flake horizontally, then down to the bag, and I couldn't haul it until it was dislodged from the flake. I yanked and yarded, but nothing would free the rope. Finally, and very stupidly, I wrapped my hand/wrist around the rope once to get more purchase and pulled as hard as I could. The rope came free from the flake and the pig took a huge pendulum, and the entire weight of it cinched around my wrist and ripped me off the ledge. I flailed around in space, upside down, and instantly lost all circulation to my hand. My partner was still jugging so he couldn't help. After a few seconds of yelling about how I was going to lose my hand, I realized I could just unwrap my wrist from the rope.

So that sucked. Lesson: make sure your haul line runs very cleanly before your have your buddy release the bag. REALLY obvious in hindsight, but day 3 on a wall when your thirsty as hell and just finished a 2 hour lead... Not as obvious.

Good luck!

Kevin DeWeese · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 981

Adding to the sub topic of not screwing the second:

When the leader gets to the anchor on a windy or cold day, it's easy for the leader to futz about because they're warm from moving still. The problem is your second is freezing from hours of being still so it's important not to hold them there for longer than needed. Obviously you shouldn't move too fast and make mistakes, but just keeping the different conditions in mind will help you to keep moving until the anchor is set and the line is fixed before taking a rest.

This is one of the main reasons I solo most of my walls; to always be moving and warm.

---------
All of Moof's points are solid. Really good advice there.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346

Dont cluster fuck yo belays.

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Lot's of good, honest suggestions so far.

Don't learn to wall climb on the Nose is one I would heartily second!

I poo pooed rope bags for years but I swear by them now. Don't forget rope bags for the lead line and haul line. If you are in the wind band on the Nose (the lower Stove Legs), you might even want the leader to climb with one for the haul line.

Caleb Padgett · · Rockville, utah · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 85
core sh%t
Dont whip after running it out 60ft off the bealy.
And if you do make sure you didnt forget your jugs at the belay so you can rescue yourself.
iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

Moofs advice is solid ! +1000!

I don't do walls anymore , too much work and too old to care about em like I used to .
Although I did have a delusional thought of completing the direct finish on jimmy dunn's Cosmos with jimmy at one time, but we decided were better off being old farts and doing old fart stuff . Lol ....

If I can add one more tidbit of info it would be .... Get comfortable with the hight ! Stay focused with the tasks at hand no matter how tired you are ! Never trust any fixed gear always back everything up ! And never ever become complacent !

Walls go like this
1st: scared shitless ! Wants to bail !
2nd: a little poop creeps out once n awhile
3rd: sphincter is tight but no noticeable leakage
4th: relaxed sphincter , focused mind , beginning to enjoy the climbing
5th: relaxed ,attentive , only brief moments of puckering depending on the route/weather/ ect

But to answer your question : not having fun !!!!
Cheers

JohnnyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10

Don't break a sweat

Shire-mon · · Moab, UT / Boone, NC · Joined May 2008 · Points: 50

Thanks for the helpful input everyone, there is some great advice in there. Feel free to keep adding more.

-Brett

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Another thing you don't want to do: Don't come down! You WILL feel like a piece of shit the minute you hit the ground and pull your ropes. 99% of the time your reasons for bailing will melt away once you hit the ground.

Kevin DeWeese · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 981

Agree with Mark. Additionally, if you reach a point where you (and/or your partner) are stumped and can't figure out how to pass a section, instead of bailing, fix your rope to that point (or the closest spot with good gear) and head back to the belay. Rest, think of other things, enjoy the view, etc. Often times your mind will work out how to pass a section once the stress of the immediate moment has passed.

Better to get a half day behind or so than to figure out the obvious move/placement halfway down to the ground.

Wes Goulding · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 10

Good stuff ^^^

Thanks

Wes

PS As a big wall noob I find that reading about what to do is a great help. Dont skimp on doing your research. In addition I find that actually getting out to my local crag to practice all the cool stuff is very helpful. Turns out jugging a free hanging rope is not as easy as I thought it was going to be. Also no matter how many times I read about Not creating a mess at the belay I had to try it out (with out trying) anyway. Spending time doing these seemingly easy and basic things will payoff big time on the wall.

M2C

Good luck

Wes

SirTobyThe3rd M · · Salt Lake City · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 2,100

Don't bring too much shit. 1L of water and 40 GU packets, run the PDL and really go for it.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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