Mountain Project Logo

How about just grading accurately...?

Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486

The grade is what it feels like on the first few runs AFTER you've found the right beta.

If you're using the 5.12 beta to do a 5.11 climb, it's obviously gonna feel sandbagged.

If you've done a climb dozens of times, it's (usually) gonna feel easier.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
Brendan Blanchard wrote: You forgot the amnesia onsight. It's when it's been so long that it's an onsight, again. All very important stuff.
that's called the Madonna sight, feel like your touching it for the very first time nah!
teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

This route is 5.10c. Every single 5.10c climber will fail on their first try (and even a good chunk of 5.11 climbers), but once I show you the beta, it's totally a 5.10c.

I roll my eyes a bit at this: once in a while there may be a hidden hold or some truly devious sequence that's not too bad once you figure it out, but most times routes like the one I describe in the first paragraph are just sandbagged.

(That's a real example, btw: a great route, developed by a great guy and good climber, but probably pretty sandbagged for a 5.10c.)

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
caughtinside wrote:Isn't a little light sandbagging fun? I always enjoy routes rated on the "laugh method" The grade is the lowest number you can say out loud, without laughing.
Palisades (SP maybe?) in Alabama may be the most hilariously sandbagged place I have ever climbed. Maybe it's the style of climbing (lots of steep roofs and tricky gear) but in my book anything steep enough to require heel hooking and/or campusing is pretty stout for 5.7.

For reference I will submit the roof on P1 of yellow spur (Eldo 5.9) and the roof on head over heels in jtree (10a) as roughly equivalent in difficulty to the roof on Cashmere (palisades 5.7).

I will admit I had trouble keeping a straight face calling it "full value 5.7".

P.S. Before anyone says it I realize mandatory heel hooking is gunks 3rd class. Relax.
Dan Austin · · San Francisco, CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 0
alleyehave wrote:Oh cool, the first thread i've ever seen about the subjectivity of route grades....im sure this one will be a lot different...
Wait, a lot different from what? I thought this was the FIRST one of these threads you've ever seen!!!!!! C'mon son
Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590
teece303 wrote:This route is 5.10c. Every single 5.10c climber will fail on their first try (and even a good chunk of 5.11 climbers), but once I show you the beta, it's totally a 5.10c. I roll my eyes a bit at this: once in a while there may be a hidden hold or some truly devious sequence that's not too bad once you figure it out, but most times routes like the one I describe in the first paragraph are just sandbagged. (That's a real example, btw: a great route, developed by a great guy and good climber, but probably pretty sandbagged for a 5.10c.)
Some people are honest yet modest in their grading. Others will spatter on about how easy climbs are nowadays and how they climbed their routes uphill both ways in the old days. One of these is helpful, the other is not.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
Post a Reply to "How about just grading accurately...?"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.