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How about just grading accurately...?

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

I really bothers me that I can sometimes climb 5.12 in the gym and I cannot do the same thing on the desert towers of Utah and Arizona. I think there should be a law making all grades the same! This is very important. No one ever knows what areas have "stiff" ratings and what areas are "soft." No one, EVER! THIS IS A TRAVESTY! Stoya, please save us!

stoya

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
" I think there should be a law making all grades the same! "

Already exists, just hasn't caught on yet.

5.fun and ratings don't matter.

;-)
Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
Locker wrote:" I think there should be a law making all grades the same! " Already exists, just hasn't caught on yet. 5.fun and ratings don't matter. ;-)
I thought it was "Josh 5.9+"
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Ahhh, the classic JTree 5.9+. Gotta love those fuckers. The rating where you go,

"What the fuck was that?"

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

5.FUN! The best rating of all! Now, is that Type-1 fun or Type-2 fun?

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Both and all. Fun doesn't discriminate.

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
teece303 wrote:I agree completely. While it is hard to actually grade climbs, if you believe a route is a 12a, you say it. You don't call it an 11a just cuz. This DOES happen, and it drives me nuts. I remember I climbed a top-rope-only problem once outside, and it was rated 5.5. There is no universe in which it was anything other than a 5.9+ or 10a. And yet some dipstick decided to call it a 5.5, presumably because it was short and un-leadable? Lame. Whoever rated this didn't think it was a 5.5: their rating was a lie. It wasn't even that old of a climb, so there was no confusion about which generation of YDS it came from. The trouble is, we all honor these dipsticks. Once Joe Dipstick calls said problem a 5.5, all too often we all follow along, and call it a "hard 5.5," when in reality we all know that's BS.
The FAist thought it was a 5.5. You insist it's .10a. Who's the dipstick?

Everyone's right it is an ego issue, but it's not the egos that you are thinking.
Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
Greg E wrote:Grades to most people are all about vanity. Think of all the n00bs you have seen spraying about the dyno to a crimper they made on a 5.12d after traversing through some chossy rock. When in reality, they had to hangdog three times to make the crux. Grades to me are a guide. They either steer me towards a route or away from it. Otherwise, they are purely subjective and meaningless.
I feel fairly confident that I have never seen a noob 3-hang a 5.12d.
Joe Crawford · · Truckee, CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 105

So, I can't remember; is sport climbing better than trad?

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

Sounds like some panties are all twisted up over a 12 d Dyno eh? Fin noobs I tell you!!!! I suggest that climbs have multiple grades.. There is the onsight grade, flash grade, madonna point (feels like the first time even though it's not), hangover point, first climb of the season point, the summer point, the fall point, what I tell myself point and what I tell you point. See, it's all pretty pointless, though it is fun to see adults cry. Long as you don't take it too serious that won't be you.

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

^^^

Going with a "BINGO!" for the above.

Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590
J Q wrote:Sounds like some panties are all twisted up over a 12 d Dyno eh? Fin noobs I tell you!!!! I suggest that climbs have multiple grades.. There is the onsight grade, flash grade, madonna point (feels like the first time even though it's not), hangover point, first climb of the season point, the summer point, the fall point, what I tell myself point and what I tell you point. See, it's all pretty pointless, though it is fun to see adults cry. Long as you don't take it too serious that won't be you.
You forgot the amnesia onsight. It's when it's been so long that it's an onsight, again. All very important stuff.
Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0
20 kN wrote:I hear it all the time, "Yosemite is graded hard because it is a hardman place,“ “gym grades are soft on purpose,”“ I always grade one letter grade below my true opinion." This got me thinking. I believe rock climbing is the only activity with some sort of difficulty scale in which participants intentionally voice false opinions on the grades. When is the last time you heard a race official say "this track is actually 9.1k, but fuck it, the runners here are girlscouts so we are going to call this a 10k?" Likewise, I dont see the Olympics running fast clocks on the 200m freestyle because Michael Phelps needs more of a challenge, and because the Olympics is for hardmen only.
Yup the Soviet, French and US judges use the exact same process to score all the figure skaters and gymnasts. No grade inflation with the proliferation of perfect 6's - athletes are just better now...
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"You forgot the amnesia onsight. It's when it's been so long that it's an onsight, again. All very important stuff."

LOL!
Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349

Greg Barnes for the win!

Gyms need to go to a G rating system....

climbing in a two dimensional world, lacks the real world of climbing.

JohnnyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10
20 kN wrote:I hear it all the time, "Yosemite is graded hard because it is a hardman place,“ “gym grades are soft on purpose,”
You hear this all the time? It's opposite from what I hear.

I think familiarity with the type of climbing is the big variable. If you climb a lot in one place (like the gym or Yosemite, or Josh, or Rumney), then you learn that type of climbing. Climbs of say, 5.10 feel relatively easy compared to a 5.10 climb at a place you don't know.

Since many people climb mostly in gyms, then gym climbing starts to feel relatively easy.

Also, for another counterpoint, the Boulder Rock Club ratings used to be HARD. We always supposed the gym was intentionally doing a little bit of a public service. Didn't want gym climbers to have an inflated sense of their abilities when they went outside.
Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

Not to hi-jack the thread, but this brings up a point which may or may not address the issue. I/we are working on a new cliff band, setting routes, cleaning high choss rock, bolting, etc. After working a line, sometimes for weeks, one gets to know it well, and the first ascent may seem somewhat easier. What one realizes in the situation is when working routes like this, is that one does not get the opportunity to on-sight. The question begs, how do you rate a climb. Is it the difficulty inherent in the climb or is it the on-sight? We all know when we climb one of our favorite climbs for the 30th time it is much less strenuous than the first time. Hence, is the rating is based on the first time (on-sight) or the 30th, this takes this effort, this skill, this movement? And to the point of this thread, does this not influence a rating you come across. Is the FA an onsight, or was it worked over a period of time?

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

My serious question.

Why does it really even matter? Just have fun.

IMHO people make way more out of it than need be.

It's JUST climbing on ROCKS.

Limpingcrab DJ · · Middle of CA · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,055

Because arguing/debating is fun Locker! And it's the closest we can get to climbing while we're sitting at work.

This gym/outdoor controversy is backwards for me, I can climb harder slab than gym climbs. But that's just because I'm weak.

Bawdy B · · Denver, CO · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 95
Guy Keesee wrote:Greg Barnes for the win! Gyms need to go to a G rating system.... climbing in a two dimensional world, lacks the real world of climbing.
I think a G rating system would be totally valid. I love bringing my east coast peeps out who "crush 5.12 in the gym" and then watching them fail on a 5.9 when it's real rock. I'm with you, LimpingCrab, I climb much harder outside than inside. I don't like all those holds, telling me exactly where I'm supposed to go.

Grades are pure ego and I'm as guilty as everyone else. Grading "accurately" though seems like an impossible request. We all climb differently and are at differently levels. My 5.10 may feel like an 11 to one guy and an 8 to another. I wasn't trying to sandbag anyone or inflate the grade, it's just how it felt to the person who graded it. Grading standards are inevitably different because different people graded the routes. Why don't we just let Layton Kor or Sharma set all of our grades for us? ;-)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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