Can shoes have an impact?

For those that don't know I'm new to climbing(6 months) and I seem to have hit the 5.10 wall. I purchased a pair of lace up mythos as my first shoe. They're great for schmearing and feeling good on an all day trad route, and are shit for edges and tiny holds. I feel like I can almost never trust my feet, and as a result don't put as much weight on them as I should.

I tried a pair of gym shoes and was easily able to send an 11 that I had been working on for a few days, and the difference was noticeable. Is it more likely that I have a mental block or that the shoes would make that large of a difference?

Remember that our climbing forefathers climbed much harder routes before the use of sticky rubber.

Shoes make a huge difference. Many people own several pairs, all of which serve different purposes. Mythos as you've said, are great for smearing, cracks, and long trad days, but can't edge that well. Get a tight (but comfortable) pair of scarpa instincts, five ten team x's, or something similar for thin, edgy, and sporty stuff. They also work well for roofs and bouldering. With those two pairs (mythos & something more aggressive), you'll have the bases pretty much covered.

bradyk wrote:Remember that our climbing forefathers climbed much harder routes before the use of sticky rubber.

Just think how much harder they would have climbed with better shoes.

Shoes do make a difference. Technique, strength etc... will make a huge difference, and I've seen people hike my projects in flip flops, but that does not mean that shoes don't matter. At any given time, you only have the skills that you have at that moment and a better shoe for the job will make a difference. At 6 months of climbing, you can make great gains by training your technique and soon enough, that 11 may go down with any pair of shoes. At this point, this is where you should be concentrating your effort. But as you climb more an more, you will discover that certain shoes work better for you on different types of climbing.

After only 6 months you are probably not hitting a wall as much as you have fixed all the easy things you have to fix. Mythos will get a little soggy on you after a while and there are better edging shoes but they are probably not a main contributor to the slowdown you are feeling. New shoes will help some and it is never a bad idea to get another pair of shoes if only so you can let one pair dry before wearing it again.

@bradyk: I watched some guy effortlessly saunter halfway up a route in eldo to get some booty, then down climb, in some sandals, all of this was in a route waaaaay to hard for us. I'll take what I can get at his point.

@csproul: I keep working on technique, like trying to climb without using hands, etc... But when I heel hook it has been commented on that I look strange as hell doing it, mythos have nothing on the back and it hurts like hell unless I use the side of my foot. I used to golf a lot and know that small changes make a big difference, and I don't want to develop bad habits. I was having a big mental debate to decide if it was in my mind or not. Which it is...more or less.

Shoes don't make that big of a difference. Certainly not as much as everyone makes them out to be. It is more mental than your equipment. Although, I like to blame it on my shoes when I fall. It can't be my inability.

Yes to the above. 6 months you have started to catch up to your native ability. Now the work starts. That said there are (at least) 2 issues to consider
1) I was in my first 6 months, stuck on a v4 boulder problem, just could not crack it. Noticed my partner always pulled on his Anasazis for the send. I was in my original Mad Rocks. Went and bought a pair of Anasazis, sent it on the first try. It was the shoes! I tried to repeat in the madrocks, no way.
2) I was working a 11- arete project, there was one move i could not nail, fell 30 times, A dime edge on the very pointed arete, tiny. I came out in my brand new, out of the box TC pros. Wasn't even a thought, went right up, edging magic.
SO yes, shoes can make a difference, but have you seen the picture of Ondra down climbing the 5.13 with his shoes off the heels, just on the front of his foot? Technique, strength, mindfulness, and experience.
Find the shoe brand that fits your foot, each brand has a different last, different fit, and then pick the style which fits your climbing. And always resole before you blow your toes or mid-sole, which is a good reason to have more than one pair.

bradyk wrote:Remember that our climbing forefathers climbed much harder routes before the use of sticky rubber.

Did they? *Much* harder than 5.10? I'm not sure which "forefathers" you're referring to but I don't think too many people BITD were climbing 5.12+ in hobnail boots.

Yosemite in the 60s, they weren't using hobnail boots but they sure as heck were sending 5.12+ in regular tennis shoes.

Technique is paramount, there is no substitute, but certain shoes are designed for certain things, and I believe it boils down to whatever works best for you on whatever you are trying to climb. Currently I use Scarpa Instincts for bouldering and sport routes and love them, Mythos for cracks and trad routes, and may sound silly, but I prefer using my Karakorum boots for slabs, thats what I feel the most comfortable in, and the more comfortable I am, the better I climb and better my technique. So choose whatever works for you.

ChadMartino wrote:Yosemite in the 60s, they weren't using hobnail boots but they sure as heck were sending 5.12+ in regular tennis shoes.

No they weren't.

The first 5.12 in Yosemite was put up in 1975 (Fish Crack). I don't even think there was a confirmed 5.11 in yos in the 60s, although I'm not positive.

shoes can make a difference

but it doesnt make up for poor technique

ask yourself honestly whether its the shoes or your technique holding you back

thats all there is to it

;)

For a little clarity on the "back in the day" factoids flying to and fro: Reinhold Messner established the grade of 5.11+ in the 1960s with his brothers, before his epic on the Rupal Face. Looking even farther back, the first 5.10c was established in 1918. Routes in Eldorado Canyon like Wendego (.12a) have been climbed barefeoot. Shoes help, but it is not about the shoes.

Alexander Blum wrote:For a little clarity on the "back in the day" factoids flying to and fro: Reinhold Messner established the grade of 5.11+ in the 1960s with his brothers, before his epic on the Rupal Face. Looking even farther back, the first 5.10c was established in 1918. Routes in Eldorado Canyon like Wendego (.12a) have been climbed barefeoot. Shoes help, but it is not about the shoes.

I'm not sure I get your point.

Shoes help? Check.

It's not all about the shoes? Check.

People have climbed 5.12 (and probably harder) without shoes? Check.

Thanks for clarifying...I guess?

My point being that your shoes make much, much less of a difference than, oh, I don't know . . . skill, strength, and technique? Out of all of the variables at play, they are one of the least important.

Alexander Blum wrote:My point being that your shoes make much, much less of a difference than, oh, I don't know . . . skill, strength, and technique? Out of all of the variables at play, they are one of the least important.

Was anyone confused about that?

If they weren't, why did the begin a thread to ask?

Alexander Blum wrote:If they weren't, why did the begin a thread to ask?

To ask if I encountered a mental block where I think my current shoes are sub bar for tricky stuff, or if using a different shoe can mean the difference between a send or not. I'm focusing on my footwork and I keep encountering odd placements because I have no edge. I don't trust my feet, and my arms get pumped quicker as a result. I tried a different shoe and it went better than before. I can't tell if it was the shoe or my confidence.

Alexander Blum wrote:My point being that your shoes make much, much less of a difference than, oh, I don't know . . . skill, strength, and technique? Out of all of the variables at play, they are one of the least important.

They are also the easiest to change.

Eliot Augusto wrote: To ask if I encountered a mental block where I think my current shoes are sub bar for tricky stuff, or if using a different shoe can mean the difference between a send or not. I'm focusing on my footwork and I keep encountering odd placements because I have no edge. I don't trust my feet, and my arms get pumped quicker as a result. I tried a different shoe and it went better than before. I can't tell if it was the shoe or my confidence.

Mythos are a shitty edging shoe. They are ok out of the box, but they quickly lose a good edge. IMO, edging skills are often more important in the gym than they are outside, especially if your gym has no surface and little friction. Yes, I have seen people climb 5.13 in Mythos, but those people already have good technique and strength, so they can usually climb pretty hard in anything. Don't get rid of your Mythos, they are great for certain things. You can certainly keep you mythos and continue to learn and climb in them just fine. Your technique will catch up. But if you are going to get another pair of shoes anyway, you'll probably notice a difference with another shoe.