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I wouldn't be that stupid

Original Post
Brad J · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 471

So, I was at Smith a few of years back watching a couple of guys working on "churning in the wake". The belayer was using a grigri and wasn't paying attention. When the leader fell just after clearing the crux, the rope went coursing through the grigri because it didn't self lock. The belayer was lucky to catch the guy about 15ft from the deck. I thought what an idiot. I figured I was too "attentive and experienced" to make that kind of mistake. Yeah right!

My buddy Paul and I were at Owens River Gorge this week. We hiked down central and decided to warm up on Expressway. Paul roped in and was nearing the anchor. The rope was a little tight at that point and I decided to give him some slack. As I unlocked the grigri and pulled out a loop he fell. I had the grigri unlocked for maybe a half a second when I released, but it didn't auto lock.and Paul was going to deck. I was scrambling, trying to grab the rope with either hand eventually finding it with my right. I squeezed with everything I had and finally the grigri locked. Paul was stopped just below the fourth bolt. Must have been a fifty foot whipper. Hombre that he is, he pulled back up and finished the climb. He was fine. I needed to change my shorts and my hands are pretty badly rope burned. A very, very small price to pay.

I'm not sharing this because I like to humiliate my self or because I like to open myself up to the insults that are likely from the select group that thinks there is a higher truth in handing out crap, anonymously, on the internet. There is a bigger picture here. Experience isn't vigilance or attentiveness nor is it infallible. I have to let go of the arrogance of 25 years of climbing. All the routes, places, people. This leader, this climb, this moment, that's
where I need to be.

I hope this never again happens to me and I hope just as fervently that it doesn't happen to you.

Brad

I am 100% at fault but I am getting a second gen grigri.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

Good message.

What makes you think a 2nd gen Grigri will work differently than a 1st generation? Do you keep your brake hand on the rope at all times while using the Grigri?

Ryan Nevius · · Perchtoldsdorf, AT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,837

It has nothing to do with you using a first-gen GriGri...it has to do with you incorrectly belaying and letting go of the brake strand.

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

Thanks for sharing that. Big props to you for putting yourself out there so that others can learn from your mistake. It is good to be reminded that complacency will get you killed, and experience does not make you immune. I am glad no one was hurt.

flynn · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 25

Thanks for being this brave. Hope you don't get crucified.

One of the scariest books I read every year is Accidents in North American Mountaineering. While some of them sound like Darwin Award candidates, there are always two or three that make me think, "Oh, shit. I've done that." For the last time, usually.

Vitamin E is good for burns.

Nick Votto · · CO, CT, IT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 320

Thanks for sharing Brad, I do that all the time if my partner needs a little slack...I'll be thinking a little more next time it happens. Tho I did switch to a GriGri only a year ago after about 15 yrs with an ATC.....these things are weird haha.

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

Every time I read something like this, I really think it is an argument in favor of belay gloves (among other things).

You did the right thing (after a mistake?), and got your partner stopped, and earned some rope burns.

How many people might feel that burn and just let go instinctively?

(And did you have your brake hand off the rope? It sounds like you did. As tempting as it is, we gotta make sure we don't let the Gri Gri lead us that way. Most of the time it locks hand or no hand, it seems, but most of the time is not often enough, right?

Thanks for posting.

Mitch Musci · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Apr 2002 · Points: 665

Brad, I'm just curious...you mentioned that you unlocked or "disengaged" the cam of the gri gri to pay out slack right when your partner fell. As he was falling, did you still have the device unlocked? Many belayers run into trouble by accidentally squeezing the device (ie death grip) and keeping the cam disengaged, thus preventing the gri gri from auto locking.

If you released your non-brake hand from the device completely and had to squeeze the shit out of the brake strand alone to stop the fall, then that is quite a bit more disconcerting to me, for it would mean the gri gri's cam did not "re-engage" like it should. Thanks in advance for clearing this up.

Brad J · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 471

Thx all

I use the normal technique when feeding slowly through the grigri. Because I had shoulder surgery I developed a slightly different way to feed rope quickly. At no time is a hand NOT on the hot side of the rope. When the leader needed rope quickly I would transfer the grigri to my left hand holding the brake open and holding the rope between my thumb and two fingers. In a fall this would shock load the grigri enough to lock. After feeding out the rope with my right hand (and good shoulder) I would transfer back to my right hand on the hot side. I held a whole bunch of falls this way but not this fall. The sudden pull on the rope yanked it from my fingers and because I had the brake open it didn't and apparently couldn't lock. This explanation probably doesn't make it clear but it doesn't matter because this technique is wrong and I won't be using it again.

Brad

leon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15
rockvoyager wrote:Thx all I use the normal technique when feeding slowly through the grigri. Because I had shoulder surgery I developed a slightly different way to feed rope quickly. At no time is a hand NOT on the hot side of the rope. When the leader needed rope quickly I would transfer the grigri to my left hand holding the brake open and holding the rope between my thumb and two fingers. In a fall this would shock load the grigri enough to lock. After feeding out the rope with my right hand (and good shoulder) I would transfer back to my right hand on the hot side. I held a whole bunch of falls this way but not this fall. The sudden pull on the rope yanked it from my fingers and because I had the brake open it didn't and apparently couldn't lock. This explanation probably doesn't make it clear but it doesn't matter because this technique is wrong and I won't be using it again.......ever. Brad
phew! That is a relief! I was like: how am I gonna eat and take care of business on the wall now that the Gri is not catching?????!!!!
Brad J · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 471

Mitch

I'm pretty sure I released the brake quickly and the grigri didn't auto-lock. But let me stress, it's a whole different world looking back at it versus being in the moment. I didn't have a lot of time to think, It was more like muscle memory from years of belaying. I think that's why we (particularly me) as climbers need to do the right thing on the front end rather than try to suss out what happened on the back end.

Brad

APBT1976 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 55

I decked being belayed with a Cinch about 7 weeks ago. Who knows what happened as I was climbing not belaying. My belayer was a long time trusted partner so I did no even think to question he was at fault.

This is interesting info for me as I have never belayed with a GriGri or a Cinch. I have always just used an ATC so it hard for me to even consider any kind of operator error with no first hand experience with the auto locking devices.

Glad everyone is ok. I fractured my calcaneus but it coulda been so much worse. I feel very very lucky in a what the fuck kinda way...

Nardo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 0

So a few quick question…What size rope were you using and how old is your 1st Gen GriGri?? Is it worn out quite a bit or still in good shape?
It doesn't take much wear to make it engage a little slower

A friend bought a new rope that was thinner (9.6 / 9.8 ish) than her old rope and her old gen1 grigri didn't quite catch the way it used to. So we looked further into her grigri and noticed it was quite worn. A a quick glance it didn't look too bad but when compared to other grigri's you could see the difference.
It is mechanical and should always work but I there are many factors that affect how quickly it engages.

Anyway thanks for posting!

APBT1976 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 55

The device was a Cinch and the rope was a mammut 9.5. The device was a few years old I don't really know much beyond that.

I had read about the Cinch wearing and it having issues as a Gri can.

We had been climbing for a few hours and I had been caught on the rope and device a few times. I am lucky I was only 25-30ft off the ground. I had just been taking whips 60-80-100 foot up. Still 30 foot isn't nothing but 80-100 woulda been death or ending up am quad...

Scary, I think I will request my partners stick to an ATC at least till I get my head back ans feel I can trust a Cinch or Gri!

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

rockvoyager:

I think a grigri doesn't work by locking up because of a shock load or the speed of the rope flying through it, but by inertia. The rope on the climber side needs to attempt to accelerate the brake side rope. Once the rope is moving it might well not lock. If the belayer grabs the rope to the climber, or keeps the cam open the impact of inertia provided by the brake-side rope is removed.

This is why petzl don't suggest a grigri is used as a ground anchor.

I hand always needs to be on the brake side, particularly if a hand is on the rope to the climber.

Grigris have held many a solo aid fall when no hands were anywhere near the device, the problem seems to be once hands get involved either on the rope to the climber, or on the cam: which is why once a hand is involved in anyway in the system a hand must be on the brake rope at all times as a backup.

leon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15

This got me thinking. Check out an article " gri gri unmasking the myth". It brings up some good points!

Mitch Musci · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Apr 2002 · Points: 665

David, the physics of cam operation on the gri gri is and interesting topic. It would seem that even if the cam is held open while a leader falls, the cam should close as soon as it is allowed to. Since a climber is accelerating during a lead fall, this change in speed should be enough force against inertia to cause the cam to engage.

Obviously there is a grey area between cam open and closed, which is best demonstrated when paying out slack slowly in shorter increments vs faster in larger increments. There are factors that can cause the gri gri to enter this "grey area" during a lead fall, like excessive rope drag for example.

Even so, I think the article Leon linked to tells a good story:

"However, when paying out rope for the lead climber to clip a runner it was a different story. If the plastic lever part of the device was held down the device failed to grip and would only hold a fall if the belayer had the presence of mind to release the lever area or let go of the device altogether."

My conclusion is that during a lead fall, either squeezing the lead side of the rope or maintaining a death grip on the device's cam are the two factors that contribute most to gri gri accidents. While letting go of the device all-together should result in an arrested fall, factors causing the device to enter this "grey area" leave the belayer no choice but to maintain control of the brake strand at all times.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

Was the rope diameter in the original near miss under 10?

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 392
Mitch Musci wrote:"My conclusion is that during a lead fall, either squeezing the lead side of the rope or maintaining a death grip on the device's cam are the two factors that contribute most to gri gri accidents.
This is absolutely correct.

I'm going to call a spade a spade: in every case it is operator error that causes these accidents. So when I read [the Gri-gri] "...didn't auto lock." I have to call foul: it didn't lock because the operator prevented it from locking and didn't have his hand on the brake-rope to compensate.

Because lead falls can happen without warning, thinking or reacting is not an option. In other words, the operator's hands need to be in the right place doing the right things all the time. Belaying correctly must be a habit that requires no thinking.

The reality is that some people are lazy about creating and reinforcing good habits. "Why bother? The Gri-gri is auto-locking, right?" Or in this case, using bad technique to compensate for an injury.

To my knowledge there are only two correct ways to fast-feed slack for clipping. If you're not doing one of these, you're part of the problem.

You may flame me for being too harsh, but the judgment of gravity is harsh, swift and without appeal.
Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245

Every new belayer should learn the fundamentals of belaying by using only an ATC or similar tube style device. Only when they've established good habits, attentiveness, and knowledge of good belays, should they move to a gri gri.

Just my opinion of course, but in every gri gri "failure" story I've heard, the accident or potential accident could have been avoided if the belayer had reverted to proper ATC technique. i.e.: keeping the brake hand on, and locked off.

Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590

A good reminder for everyone, but you're very unclear as to where your hands were when he fell. If one was on the brake strand, then you were very unlucky or there were other factors at play. If one hand wasn't on the brake strand, then that's your fault, and should clearly be listed as the cause of the accident. There's no scrambling needed when your hand is always on the brake strand, like it should be.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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