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The business of training

Original Post
Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

I've heard a lot of the arguements for training. I agree with a few points but it mostly sounds like a consumer religon. They make sense yet lack any real substance when taking reality into consideration.

If the business of training is to be succesful then people must believe the hype. More books, gadgets, talks, and trainers but are people better off? Is the training industry just a new way for people to make money or is it true that 5.12 is better than 5.10? Is one's life is better if they climb higher numbers?

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

is it true that 5.12 is better than 5.10? Is one's life is better if they climb higher numbers?

No and No.

If you are happy climbing 5.10 then you are fitter and probably having a better time exercising than the vast majority of Americans.

but, I do feel a sense of accomplishment from the hard work that goes into a hard redpoint, so my life is better because of the effort.

...and the the higher the grade you climb, the more stuff you can climb at a crag.

Kerwin Loukusa · · PNW · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 135

I enjoy doing routes in the mountains, the easy to moderate routes 5.9/5.10 tend to be crowded as that is what most weekend warriors can climb without dedicating themselves to training. Training allows me to go climb more secluded routes in the mountains and to get on the harder always open lines at the crag. I get to climb more routes and stand around waiting less. Training allows me to do this.

If you want to debate the merits of training/progress, it is worth noting that climbing by itself is a pretty pointless activity. Climbing provides me with a form of moving meditation, pointless to others, valuable to me. The progress that comes with training is part of the natural cycle of growth and decay, nothing stays the same forever, it is fun to watch the strength come and go as the seasons progress.

If you need a reason to train, a simple one is to prevent injury. Preventing injury will keep you climbing, which is where all the fun is, eh?

Drew Hayes · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 110
David Sahalie wrote: is it true that 5.12 is better than 5.10? Is one's life is better if they climb higher numbers?
Yes, and yes.
marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

Jake Jones got the right answer. Everyone else...better luck next time.

matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155
Jake Jones wrote:I recently discovered training doesn't involve trains. You can imagine my relief.
it does so involve trains... quit being a such a bitch :)

youtube.com/watch?v=hP00VmK…
Ryan Palo · · Bend, oregon · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 605

Hahaha. The training industry! You're talking about 4 or 5 people making an ok wage doing just that. The rest are usually gym lackies or starved pros doing a clinic tour.

Climbing 5.10 well is actually pretty great, but climbing it well usually means the ability to climb much harder. I will say harder routes tend to ascend better features and have more interesting movement. Being a solid 5.11 climber with the ability to dog your way through most 5.12-s where it's at. You can climb most long routes and pull through sections if you get stumped.

It's fun to chase grades( at least it is for me ), but what really motivates me is climbing cool routes. It just so happens that most of the BA routes in my home area are in the 12 range. If it was Rifle Id say the 12+/13, the Red 12, Josh 10, etc.

If climbing striking features is what makes you happy, train, and work your technique till you're at the appropriate level. Otherwise, just open the guide book and continue to slop your way up any ole 5.10.

And dont waste your money on any type of gadget besides a partner with a good eye (for technique) and a hangboard.

Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

You can utterly suck at most activities and enjoy them. Climbing is special because you can utterly suck and still travel the world and enjoy it.

You can go to Italy and climb 5.6 slowly and have a wonderful trip. You can't exactly travel to Italy to push your cruiser bike up mountain passes and have as much fun. It's unique like that.

Train if you want to. Just don't complain when you don't improve like the totally motivated crowd. Don't begrudge them their ability either.

phildenigris · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0
Ryan Palo wrote:Hahaha. The training industry! You're talking about 4 or 5 people making an ok wage doing just that. The rest are usually gym lackies or starved pros doing a clinic tour. Climbing 5.10 well is actually pretty great, but climbing it well usually means the ability to climb much harder. I will say harder routes tend to ascend better features and have more interesting movement. Being a solid 5.11 climber with the ability to dog your way through most 5.12-s where it's at. You can climb most long routes and pull through sections if you get stumped. It's fun to chase grades( at least it is for me ), but what really motivates me is climbing cool routes. It just so happens that most of the BA routes in my home area are in the 12 range. If it was Rifle Id say the 12+/13, the Red 12, Josh 10, etc. If climbing striking features is what makes you happy, train, and work your technique till you're at the appropriate level. Otherwise, just open the guide book and continue to slop your way up any ole 5.10. And dont waste your money on any type of gadget besides a partner with a good eye (for technique) and a hangboard.
I'd agree with most of that. I'm a strength and conditioning coach, and most of the stuff I see online and in books regarding training is not particularly impressive. Technique will always be more important, but I think nearly any climber can improve their fitness whether it be strength, power, mobility, balance, weightloss, etc. There are plenty of people out there who could structure a really good program for climbers, but it appears to be a hard market to tap into, many of the climbing gyms I've seen don't have the appropriate space or equipment for a good group class.

I agree that an individual doesn't need much to train for climbing.
kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608

The key question for a business of training for climbers is not whether climbing harder is worthwhile, not whether some people would get better much faster and safer with a training program ... but rather

How many people are willing to pay for it?

I think there is some evidence that a few parents will pay for their (national-competition-hopeful) child to attend an elite training center with the best equipment (and presumably the best coaching). Presumably if climbing ever becomes a regular Olympic sport, many more parents will pay for this.

The other people who could be capable of paying for it would be adults with good-paying jobs. And who have the problem that most good-paying jobs nowadays require lots of extra time and emotional energy. Therefore not much time + energy left over for optimal training. I'd guess that a sizable percentage of these people could benefit in both difficulty-improvement and injury-avoidance by having a well-coached training program with well-designed special equipment at least once a week.

But seems to be little evidence that such people are willing to pay for that. I think it's that indoor bouldering and (auto-belayable) top-roping are so much fun and so convenient in the newly built large gyms near major cities (where most people with good-paying jobs live). So there's not much motivation to rush to climb harder ... (though there are some busy people over 35 who might wish some program had saved them from enduring bouldering injuries).

different perspective ... The big payback of climbing stronger for adults is for climbing outdoors safer and on better routes. But if you don't have much time + emotional energy left over for a training program, then you likely don't much for climbing outdoors either.

Ken

gf9318 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 0

If you tend to fall a lot, you should train and climb 5.12. So you don't break your ankles.

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0
phildenigris wrote: Technique will always be more important, .
Footwork and efficiency will help right up to about 12-. After that, you need to pull harder and longer with less rests.
Andy Elliott · · Hampton NH · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 40
MC Poopypants wrote:is it true that 5.12 is better than 5.10? Is one's life is better if they climb higher numbers?
I seriously think my life has improved now that i climb harder than i used to. i spend a lot of my time climbing, thinking about climbing, and training for routes that i literally feel happier after i climb a hard route (not that my projects are really considered "hard" anyway lol)
JohnnyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10

What is this "training industry?"

A few people writing books? The companies making hangboards? Or is the all the climbing gyms?

jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165

The trolling powers are strong with this one.

Magpie79 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 0
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:
You can utterly suck at most activities and enjoy them. 

Yep. But it is better to not suck.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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