First Ascents, should the belayer be included even if they don't climb it?

good topic. I was just thinking about this a while back and mentioned a thought on my FB page something like "Behind every great and successful FA or project is a great belayer..". I know that I can name everyone who belayed me on any of my FAs.

Sometimes I think partners are belayers but not always the other way around. I have listed team efforts on some FAs. And have others help me on a pitch or two of a long route, but not get mention in an FA. It depends I suppose. On single pitch stuff it is common that some one will belay an FA, lower him while he cleans the gear, and not climb the route at all. But if he also climbs it right after I think its respectful to list him in the FA.

I do think the route usually has more soul when there is a team effort involved.

What definitely gets lost these days is recognition/credit to equipper/developer of a route. The FFA gets the credit and 'ownership' of the route. Unfortunate that no one really cares.

Mr. Locker. First off I will say that I really enjoy reading your posts. You seem to have a consistent opinion, provide on topic thoughtful posts, and rarely blow hard. However on this point I am going to have to disagree with you. I do not think someone need ascend a route to be listed on the FA. For example, on a route My wife and I are currently working on we spotted the cliff together, I rapped in, cleaned it, worked it, bolted it, and decided that at this time it is simply too hard for me to climb. However my wife, who is a much stronger climber than I, is about to send it. When she does I surely expect that she will include me on the FA (at her discretion but I know she will) and deservedly so. If not for the strengths that we both bring to our team this route would not be sent, and even if I never end up getting up it it will still have been a team effort to the fullest. Just my $.02, Bust basically it is at the discretion of the person who does the ascent to name those who's help made the ascent possible.

When I do an FA of a route I did not prepare I usually list the person who did the prep, even if it's just partial prep work. As far as listing the people who held the rope, no way. This is about who did the ascent. It makes sense in the alpine world, as they have to slog up there as well.

However, I remember to give credit where it's due/buy beers/dinner and remember what they did for me when it comes time to hike out to their project.

^agreed, the key being the word ascent.

I have seen it where a few people will be listed cuz they all sent that day. so someone did get up first, but all are listed in a sense of teamwork... but all sent, not held the rope.

i think some are using 'belayers' to also mention the partners that belay and follow, and not get recognition. maybe thats the confusion?

single pitch sport routes FA credit to the leader only. Multi-pitch sport or trad lines list the belayer after the leader. If equipped by another, then they get credit for equipping a route.

Darren Mabe wrote:i think some are using 'belayers' to also mention the partners that belay and follow, and not get recognition. maybe thats the confusion?

David Sahalie wrote:that lifetime proj OW 5.8 R

NickMartel wrote: However my wife, who is a much stronger climber than I, is about to send it. When she does I surely expect that she will include me on the FA (at her discretion but I know she will) and deservedly so.

no. it's the first ascent (fa) we're talking about, not the first assistant to the first ascensionist (fafa).

john strand wrote:I have always regarded f/a's as a team event

Wait, are we talking about all parties involved completing the climb? What style is the climb?

If you help scrub, trundle, bolt, work out the sequence of moves, or belay me for hours on end while I do the previous actions, I have always included your name in the FA. Your help absolutely contributed to the route being sent and I like to recognize that. But whoever actually sends gets their name listed first.

Steve Levin wrote: If the route/pitch was not led free but the second frees it, I would credit this as "FFA toprope", and consider the route still awaits a true FFA.

Dan G0D5H411 wrote:If you help scrub, trundle, bolt, work out the sequence of moves, or belay me for hours on end while I do the previous actions, I have always included your name in the FA. Your help absolutely contributed to the route being sent and I like to recognize that. But whoever actually sends gets their name listed first.

Everyone gets credit. Even in these circumstances.

vimeo.com/93090446

Locker wrote:IMO it's really simple. Only those that actually climb the FA get listed. Personally I think it's ridiculous to suggest that someone that never climbs a route get listed on the FA. (Think about it) Ascend = "go up or climb".

How's that saying go, there is no I in team or is it, man I love climbing but I hate climbers.

Slighted for belay credit? I can just hear the spray now... "Yeah? Well I've belayed 5.13+.... oh, I caught on the Naked Edge... That's nothing! I jugged the Nose...." ;)

I rapped the sphinx crack