Falling on Multipitch with Light Belayer
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I want to do DOWT in Red Rocks. It will be near my limit of climbing. My belayer weighs about 70lbs less than I do. When I have fallen before I pull her almost 10ft up. Whats the best way to deal with this yet still have a softer catch? |
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belay from the bolted belay station, not the belay loop. the belay station takes the weight, not the belayer. she can have a bit of rope out for a softer catch. |
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David Sahalie wrote:belay from the bolted belay station, not the belay loop. the belay station takes the weight, not the belayer. she can have a bit of rope out for a softer catch.+1 as that is a pretty easy fix for the problem described, if they know how My personal opinion - I regularly belay for someone about 40lbs heavier than me and don't really mind getting jerked up in the air. As long as she knows how to go flying safely (feet up and out!), should be OK. At least you get a soft catch ;-) |
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David Sahalie wrote:belay from the bolted belay station, not the belay loop. the belay station takes the weight, not the belayer. she can have a bit of rope out for a softer catch.Two points: 1. Having extra slack out does NOT equate to a soft catch. 2. DOWT is an example of a route where the over blown soft catch at all costs mantra really isn't valid. It's not that steep. If you want to go practice your soft catch antics go to the Gallery. |
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David Sahalie wrote:belay from the bolted belay station, not the belay loop. the belay station takes the weight, not the belayer. she can have a bit of rope out for a softer catch.Can you describe your setup for lead belaying, which is what I believe the OP is asking about, from a bolted belay station? Thanks! -M |
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Universal rule in climbing: f$&k the second |
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Instead on clipping your locker and and belay device to your belay loop, clip it to the bolt instead. You still have the same control but the fall force is put on the bolt instead. |
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jeff lebowski wrote:Universal rule in climbing: f$&k the second+1 |
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I'm pretty sure all of DOWT belays are bolted. So you can belay as normal, and you can adjust the length of the belayer's anchor tie-in and control how far they are able to be pulled up. It is no big deal for them to be pulled up a bit and stopped by the rope they used to anchor themselves. |
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Here's a good video from the ACMG (Canadian Mountain Guides) on how to belay a leader directly off the anchor. Practice ahead of time is obviously important. Belaying Leader From Anchor |
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Eliot Augusto wrote:Instead on clipping your locker and and belay device to your belay loop, clip it to the bolt instead. You still have the same control but the fall force is put on the bolt instead.Thanks Eliot! I did think of that but assuming the anchor is bolted to a rock face at a stance, the orientation would be backwards relative to a standard belay of the belay loop. Seems like you would be rubbing your knuckles, rope and device all against the rock in this geometry, as well as possibly disrupting the lock off position. BTW, this is a real question...I have not thought about lead belaying off an anchor and it seems like it might be a good idea in certain situations. Edit: Watching video now...maybe it will answer all my questions. |
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You'll notice that video expressly states to NOT clip the belay device directly to the hanger. I have seen a few Euro's belaying straight off the anchor, but I have rarely seen it in the USA. I have some serious doubts about the ability of a belayer to be able to give and take slack well/fast enough when doing this, especially if you were not able to adjust the belay device to an optimal position. I imagine it's not unlike people belaying a follower straight off the anchor in guide mode/auto-whatever-locking-assist...IME I usually get a shitty belay when people do this, despite that every climber declares otherwise. Not saying it can't be done well and safely by some, but I'll remain a bit skeptical until I see otherwise. |
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jmeizis wrote:Here's a good video from the ACMG...Thanks for posting that! That was a really informative video! The clips at the end of people catching falls really drives the point home. I often outweigh my belayer by 70+ lbs., so I definitely plan to experiment with this. |
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Phil Lauffen wrote: Rly? Does it feel shitty because they aren't pulling you upward?Ha, funny....and nice post delete. Most belayers seem to alternate between yanking me up the route and leaving 20 ft of slack in the line. And almost every belayer swears that they don't do this, and yet 4 out of 5 does, In some instances, I may not really care and it is worth the benefits. If I'm cruising an easy, but long, alpine climb I can live with it so the belayer can eat and drink more safely while belaying. |
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csproul wrote: Ha, funny....and nice post delete. Most belayers seem to alternate between yanking me up the route and leaving 20 ft of slack in the line. And almost every belayer swears that they don't do this, and yet 4 out of 5 does, In some instances, I may not really care and it is worth the benefits. If I'm cruising an easy, but long, alpine climb I can live with it so the belayer can eat and drink more safely while belaying.I felt like I was being an unnecessary dick... Sorry about your belayers, dude! How else can they take sicknasty photos, though? |
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Phil Lauffen wrote: I felt like I was being an unnecessary dick... Sorry about your belayers, dude! How else can they take sicknasty photos, though?Is ok...I thought it was funny...and yes, the sick photos are definitely worth it, especially if we can photoshop out the top-rope and make me look ultra-rad. |
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Xam wrote: Thanks Eliot! I did think of that but assuming the anchor is bolted to a rock face at a stance, the orientation would be backwards relative to a standard belay of the belay loop. Seems like you would be rubbing your knuckles, rope and device all against the rock in this geometry, as well as possibly disrupting the lock off position. BTW, this is a real question...I have not thought about lead belaying off an anchor and it seems like it might be a good idea in certain situations. Edit: Watching video now...maybe it will answer all my questions.I should have specified. I use a half length runner to with a locker to clip into the hanger, and I have the belay device clipped in to the runner. I orient the atc facing down and hold the brake end around my waist. This puts the atc at chest height while belaying, and higher during a fall. I have only done this a couple of times on a hanging belay where I didn't want to get toss around. I haven't watched the video, but itd be best follow that advice. |
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Another video, this one by Black Diamond showing different uses of their ATC Guide. Starting at about 1:24 in, they cover belaying your second off of an anchor. I prefer to do this when possible. |
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Just don't fall. |
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Tom, |
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If the belayer is properly tied into the station, then they won't go flying anywhere,,couple feet at most |