How do you decide if a runout is worth the risk?
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Think about the purpose of protection; its there to protect you in the likely event of a fall. If your perception of your capability (for a given grade of climb) is congruent with the reality of your capability than than using protection is optional. |
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Russ Keane wrote:"I'm guessing from this that you are a. A troll or B. Suck at rock climbing. I'd be interested to find out which." Wow, take it easy. It's called differing opinions. There are plenty of climbers who find unfinished leads a bad idea. Not only is it unsafe, but you leave gear-- and sometimes you don't get it back. What is the problem with committment to finish what you start? Sure it's not always going to happen, but it's a good rule of thumb. It's pretty dangerous to end up 3/4 of the way up a climb on lead, above your last pro/bolt, and get freaked and have to figure out how to bail. Much better to have the mindset that you are going to finish the route -- makes you a better climber and forces you to work through the difficulties. Take it easy on the insults, if you don't mind.first rule when you find yourself in a hole - stop digging.... |
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My response would be how bad do I want to do the route in good style which to me means no hangs, onsite. On a trad route I'll probably care about retreating then on a on a sport route which I rarely care about. Strangely for me a run out on a sport route bothers me more than on a trad route. Probably because I expect it on gear and always supprised on a sport route since you can usually view the whole thing from the ground. |
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Since this is the "Sport Climbing" forum, I'm going to answer on behalf of sport climbers (not to be confused with closet tradsters who clip bolts): |
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Slightly tongue-in-cheek...Here are some terms I've read in this thread that, as a wimpy sport climber, simply do not understand: |
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Short Beta wrote: Definitely a good point. Some days in the gym, I'll get on the overhanging wall and just take some big falls if I feel shaky that day. However, outdoors, it is sometimes hard for me to tell whether or not the potential whipper would be dangerous. Call me a N00b I guess. It's still a learning process for me.SB: Right on. Once you know a fall is safe, overcoming fear is a separate problem - you take a bunch of falls. However the process of learning what makes a safe fall vs. a potentially consequential fall is a tricky one. I think many people feel the shame of being a n00b and err on the side of boldness, which I think is risky. Again, I'd like to emphasize that facing down dangerous runouts is NOT something that is a core part of sport climbing. It's there if you want it, but it's not what sport climbing is about. |
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Short Beta, |
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@Grover, as I mentioned earlier I actually do not have balls.. petite female here. |
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I took a 60 foot whip last fall at the Red. I fumbled a clip at the anchors on a 90 footer (or close to that), dropped the rope, got pumped an fell. The rock was overhung, and I ended up plenty of distance off the ground so the risk was low. So it depends on the risk: |
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Short Beta, since you are fairly new to climbing, you are probably new to Mountain Project and Super Topo is about the same for quality of forums. |
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A lot will depend on how you're feeling on that particular day. Some days a scary runout will terrify you and on other days the same runout will seem OK. |
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When I need to get to the top and there is no gear I run it out. |
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Please note how my post wasn't about asking if I should lead runouts or not. My bad if it came across that way. I was simply sharing how it's conflicting to me sometimes and was curious of everyone's views on it. @ CJC I'm not sure what you've led besides gym routes, but I think it's pretty ridiculous to say that sport routes cannot have dangerous runout sometimes. |
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depends on if i am wearing a new Prana shirt or not. |
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Ed Wright wrote:A lot will depend on how you're feeling on that particular day. Some days a scary runout will terrify you and on other days the same runout will seem OK. The best advice I can give is to go with your instincts on that particular day and on that particular route.Scary runouts always terrify me, but once I have run it out and lived to tell about it, I know it was worth the risk. ;-) |
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Short Beta wrote:Please note how my post wasn't about asking if I should lead runouts or not. My bad if it came across that way. I was simply sharing how it's conflicting to me sometimes and was curious of everyone's views on it. @ CJC I'm not sure what you've led besides gym routes, but I think it's pretty ridiculous to say that sport routes cannot have dangerous runout sometimes.CJC has done some of the scariest of scary around these parts. There are runouts on routes that have bolts only for pro, but they are not sport climbs. At a place like Stone, they are still called trad routes. I always thought that was strange, but it is good to know if your trying to onsight climb it. Something like toxic avenger at the Red may feel runout climbing there, but it is all about perspective. To me, that is still a safe sport climb. |
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If you get 2 feet off the ground and you realize your not isn't tied properly, don't back off the route. Not only is it bad form but it is the ultimate shame. Same goes for if you take a fall and break your ankle. You are still committed to the climb and you are required to finish it. This is climbing, damnit, not tiddlywinks! |
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TomCaldwell wrote: CJC has done some of the scariest of scary around these parts. There are runouts on routes that have bolts only for pro, but they are not sport climbs. At a place like Stone, they are still called trad routes. I always thought that was strange, but it is good to know if your trying to onsight climb it. Something like toxic avenger at the Red may feel runout climbing there, but it is all about perspective. To me, that is still a safe sport climb.This isn't about run outs like at stone though. It's in the sport climbing forum and the route mentioned in the OP is a sport route in the black corridor. "Run out" in trad is way different than "run out" in sport, where risk is supposed to be a minimal part of the equation. Having climbed the route in question, I don't remember thinking it was run out, more just awkward and not particularly worthwhile. Given that someone mentioned falling and getting hurt on the route, maybe it was more dangerous than I thought. And IMO, that particular route is not worth it. |
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"What is your threshold for runouts? Is there a line where the risk outweighs the accomplishment of finishing the route? How do you know where that line is for you? And when you've found yourself shaking at the top of a runout, with your last anchor dangling far below you, how do you reclaim control of your nerves?" |
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You can think or you can act. Over thinking can paralyze your progress (IE rationalizing) dangerous descents require riding from point a to point b and mitigating as you go and the same is true for an ascent. Break it down into steps then accept and act with absolute resolve. Think about it later. Most of us do our best work when backed into a corner, perhaps this is human nature. |