Why can't we seem to push past v15?

I think there are several good points made in this thread, I like the path this conversation is on. What really prompted me to ask the question was a hi-def video of Daniel Woods crushing Wheel of Life, once considered v16. There are several good rests throughout the climb, and even a no-hander thrown in there. This seemed to bash the "physical barrier" argument I once thought to be a valid answer to the question. What if some of the juggier holds were replaced with small edges? What if there was no knee-bar mid climb to provide a good shake out? It seems that a combination of these factors could push a climb over the v16 mark, and would just require incomprehensible amounts of endurance to complete.

What is this "we" ya got a mouse in yer pocket or are ya just happy to see the Queen?

As for the grades, meh. Whatever, that is what folks though years ago when 5.9 was thought to be the limit. Forget the numbers and being an "athlete" just climb and have fun.

Find a longer v15

Jon Frisby wrote: That's a good point. I doubt really anyone beyond the Rabatous and Horst's were actually training at a younger age. The rest were probably just climbing a bit. Even Eric Horst says that he didn't have his kids training for a while and that even now, they're playing other sports on the side. I don't know when Ondra started climbing but if you took someone with his mentality at the age that, for example elite gymnasts start training, the next level would be approached. One problem (and I mean problem as in a barrier, not that I think this mindset is a bad thing), is that climber parents are probably a little more chill than elite gymnast parents, so forcing kids to do fingerboarding at age 4 isn't generally going to happen.

i take it you haven't climbed at any of the gyms in boulder. for example, i climb at movement, and they have youth teams with kids that are really really young. these kids are getting elite level coaching - in particular, jim redo is an absolutely exceptional coach. the coaching staff are all top notch climbers, and they have a really good ability to teach the kids a lot of the techical aspects while still making it fun. i boulder around these kids several times a week, and it is mindblowing the level at which they are bouldering and the rate at which they are learning.

to be honest with you, i probably learn as much just watching the kids climb, and/or trying to grab some of the coaching info as i do working the problems myself.

slim wrote: i take it you haven't climbed at any of the gyms in boulder. for example, i climb at movement, and they have youth teams with kids that are really really young. these kids are getting elite level coaching - in particular, jim redo is an absolutely exceptional coach. the coaching staff are all top notch climbers, and they have a really good ability to teach the kids a lot of the techical aspects while still making it fun. i boulder around these kids several times a week, and it is mindblowing the level at which they are bouldering and the rate at which they are learning. to be honest with you, i probably learn as much just watching the kids climb, and/or trying to grab some of the coaching info as i do working the problems myself.

Wow, I didn't realize it was so prevalent. Are these kids in the 4-7 age range or are you mostly talking about 10 year olds?

^^^

It is indeed prevalent, especially here in Boulder. I would imagine that it's going on in other places as well, though maybe not to the degree that it is here. Here we have many elite level climbers, and some of them have children who are already climbing, and climbing hard. Another factor, as mentioned above, is the elite level coaching at their disposal. Elite level climbers becoming elite level coaches. Just last night I was climbing in Movement and there was a 7 year old girl cruising multiple 5.12's. Sure the crimps are like jugs to her, but the thing is, she was climbing with a level of technique that I rarely even see in adult climbers, and she clearly has a puzzle solving brain. She was able to read sequences and figure out how to technique her way through moves that at first looked much to "big" for her small size. She was also willing to take multiple huge falls, another thing a fair amount of adult climbers lack. We can learn a lot from the next generation...

I can't speak as to how prevalent youngster climbing is in Boulder. I assume if it's big anywhere this is the place for it.
It can't rival the interest and involvement in other sports worldwide. How many kids play soccer, basketball, skiing, tennis, track, cycling ....etc. These are well known and established sports that have a huge following throughout the world. Their pool of talent is multiple factors larger than the pool of rock climbers.
The best climber in the world might not even know the sport even exists. As the pool of talent grows, so the grades will fall.

Joe Gregoire wrote:I'm sure V15 is only a temporary ceiling, much like 5.7 was (probably in the 30's)and 5.10 was decades later. Five years from now we'll be talking about V17 as the ceiling nobody can seem to surpass.

Post of the year! lol

Jon Frisby wrote: Wow, I didn't realize it was so prevalent. Are these kids in the 4-7 age range or are you mostly talking about 10 year olds?

its hard to tell (they are all soooo tiny, and i don't have kids - but i would guess some of them are around 8 or so??).

one of the things i can't get over - some of these kids will come up to a move where the holds are a mile apart, not a problem. the first time i saw this unfold i was like "i can't wait to see this, (snicker)". the kid didn't even slow down. literally did some elasto plastic overhanging inchworm thing. it really made me realize i have an infinite amount of learning about how the human body can work. really impressive.

i wish i had that type of support when i was a kid. my friend's mom just drove us out to the crag, kicked us out, took a pull off her budweiser, and told us to try not to kill ourselves in a gravelly voice....

Because John Gill isn't bouldering anymore. . .

Because YER GUNNA DIE!! Probably justa mental thing.

IMO 15, maybe 16 is going to be about it.

There is no chimp human genome project in the works.

It is fine to pontificate that climbers will continue to grab smaller holds on steeper rock, but there is a limit. I see what it takes to do 10 and I know it won't happen for me. The 10 friends tell me the same about 12, the v12rs will have to commit hard to get v14. If most of use knew what went into sending at the v14 level, wed be amazed the human body is capable of it.

Take track for example, the rate of record breaking went up steadily for 2 decades then leveled off. If a record is broken it is by .01. And these are by people from an extremely small gene pull. Is there an American Black sprinter version of climber that is undiscovered?. I doubt it, but maybe there is a tribe of say Peruvians that evolved amazing genes by climbing trees for eggs or something.

Climbing has enjoyed a relatively steep increase in difficulty because of gyms, training and approaches compared to sports that have been around since the first Olympics.

David Sahalie wrote:Climbing has enjoyed a relatively steep increase in difficulty because of gyms, training and approaches compared to sports that have been around since the first Olympics.

I can't wait to see where the sport is in 20 years. Do you think the increase in popularity nationwide will draw from a larger talent pool and push limits higher? I do.

What if popularity drives huge $$ at competitions? Then kids that were going to be gymnasts might train for climbing in the same manner.

I think the top climbers today are doing great things. However, I'd equate them to Carl Lewis, and somewhere down the road Usain Bolt will come along and do a couple fist pumps as he crushes v16.

I just hope I'm around to see it.

Well I guess Nalle just shut us all up...