An easy safety trick, do you do this?

Hey everybody I have a ridiculously easy safety tip that could save your lives. Because this is so obvious you all are probably doing this already. I feel a bit guilty not bringing this up before now but today I heard a podcast that featured a man who fell to the ground from the anchor. He cheated death, & despite the loss of a leg, & being in constant pain, he climbs on. I also know people who have almost died falling from the anchor when they thought they were on belay. For whatever reason there was a communication problem and someone got dropped. Thankfully in both of the close calls involving friends of mine nobody hit the deck too hard. Extreme rope burn but no death.

Anyway this tip is for short single pitch routes where you may be lowered to the ground from the anchor. It is simply this, after climbing to the top clip the rope into the anchor and hold your own weight by holding the other side of the rope. You can lower yourself until your belayer takes over. Basically you just take over the job of your safety until your belayer can take over.

If you are on top rope, when you get to the top, don't just hang there yelling down "TakeTake Got me?" while you wait for your belayer to take all of the slack out if the system. It is easier and faster and safer to just grab the rope going down to your belayer and lower yourself until the slack is out of the system and your belayer has you.

If you are hanging from the anchor, as you would be if you were feeding the rope through the chains, when you are done and ready to be lowered do everything you normally do but hang on to the other side of the rope. In each of the close calls the climber thought that their belayer had them. In every case, if the climber had just held themselves by holding the belayer's side of the rope, things would have been better.

Wes

Edit to say that in every example above, you do what you normally do except that your hand is on the other side and acts as a temporary safety until your belayer can really take over. All your current safety systems are still to be used and should still be in effect. Sorry if that was not clear.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2394749/Simple-safety-technique-do-you-do-this

I don't understand - isn't the purpose of good communication between the climber and belayer the best situation? I don't lean back onto the rope until I feel the tension from my belayer.

I've heard of the accidents where the belayer thought the climber was going to rappel, so he took the climber off belay, the the climber leans back and...splat.

I think properly communication is the key. I don't like the idea of lowering myself by just grabbing the rope. Now that sounds sketchy!

Like Frank said: communicate!

But I do this when I get to the top in the gym with a new belayer. Grab the other rope until I visually confirm that they are keeping a hand on the brake. (My gym makes us use grigris and I had a newb take both hands to pull back the lever.)

if it works for you and your partners, then great. However, this does not seem particularly useful. Actually, it adds a complication very good, simple system. I would be weary of using it with a new partner without a discussion first. It seems like a great place for really fucked up communication.

Why is it bad to stand there for an extra second or two while your belay takes in slack? That it, literally, what he/she is there for.
as a belayer i would find it extremely disconcerting to see my climber moving towards the ground while i am still taking in slack. As a climber, i don't feel all warm and fuzzy to be lowered until i feel a pull on my harness.

What advantage to you gain from holding the rope? say your belayer take you off belay, you are now just hanging there, holding onto a rope. This is a situation i would like to avoid at all costs.

Nobody ever decked because they rappelled when their partner thought they were going to lower.

I don't do this and won't be doing this.

I wonder how long I could hold on like that if my belayer didn't take over.

Horrible idea...

not all that new an idea

Read RGold's response on the ST thread. Voice of reason.

The point isn't to start lowering yourself down. The point is that you grab the belayer side of the rope so you can actually feel the rope go taught. Then you know for sure that your belayer has got you. It's not a new concept. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't. Generally depends on how comfortable I am with my belayer.

Rough crowd...

Thanks for sharing Wes, not really a game changer for most climbers but I can see how it could save your life if you had already totally botched the communication aspect of the situation.

There's always the what if...what if you're cleaning an anchor with the intention of being lowered by your belayer afterwards. The communication between yourself and the belayer is decent, except you don't realize the belayer takes you off belay while you clean, then puts you back on when you yell take (I see this happen all the time). During this transition the belayer fails to thread the rope properly, and you unclip yourself from the anchor once you hear the belayer yell "I got you". You forgot to feel for tension on the rope before unclipping. You sit back and end of story.

All good replies. Thanks for your consideration.

I agree that communication is key. This is not my idea it just is something I do all the time to save time. It just has an added benefit that you won't fall to the ground due to your not being on belay.

Example
I don't like rope tension. I climb with a bit of slack. I climb to the bolted anchor, clip the rope in, and grab the other side holding myself in place. Sure if it's super steep I probably can't hold the rope. But in most cases I can. At this point I just lower myself a few feet until my belayer has me. No real safety thing here just less work. Why hang from the anchor yelling Take and Got me when you could be lowering? We are talking about ten feet of rope your belayer has to take in and cinch you up to the anchor so you can feel it. Or you can just lower down 5' & your belayer has you. It's easy.

In the three cases where the climbers were dropped they all thought they had communicated just fine. Why else would they unhook from the anchor? They all had a plan (that didn't work). They all had a system that worked for years and was completely safe, until it didn't.

In these three cases if they had just held on to the other side of the rope, just until the belayer had them, not all the way, just a few feet, things would have been much less painful.

I'm sure there are other ways to be safe in this situation. This is just what I do.

Thanks

Wes

Wes Goulding wrote:... just is something I do all the time to save time.

what does an impatient cow say...

hamburger?

There is no need to create some new kind of safety mechanism. These accidents happen because people either have poor planning skills, poor communication skills, poor analytical skills, or a combination of the three.

They're using the commands and the system incorrectly. This system we use is not exactly rocket science either. If they don't get it, adding more (useless) steps won't help.

matt c. wrote:if it works for you and your partners, then great. However, this does not seem particularly useful. Actually, it adds a complication very good, simple system. I would be weary of using it with a new partner without a discussion first. It seems like a great place for really fucked up communication. Why is it bad to stand there for an extra second or two while your belay takes in slack? That it, literally, what he/she is there for. as a belayer i would find it extremely disconcerting to see my climber moving towards the ground while i am still taking in slack. As a climber, i don't feel all warm and fuzzy to be lowered until i feel a pull on my harness. What advantage to you gain from holding the rope? say your belayer take you off belay, you are now just hanging there, holding onto a rope. This is a situation i would like to avoid at all costs.

Matt thanks for the post. I will try to answer back.

Yes it does work, always and well for years and years.

Actually doing something this easy that takes some work from my belayer and also insures that if something ever did get communicated wrong I wouldn't just die, is useful to me.

It isn't complicated at all nothing changes except I hold the other side of the rope until the belayer actually takes my weight. It takes no communication. I just do it. My belayer does nothing different.

There is only about ten feet of slack or so when I clip the chains. I lower five feet and the belayer has me. No big deal. Really.

I agree with you. On all of this stuff at the end I think that this technique will help you. At the top when I am holding on to the other side of the rope I am holding my weight through my harnes tie in. If for any reason I am not actually on belay I won't fall to the ground. I agree, avoid at all costs.

The three guys in my op, and their partners, were all in great communication with each other. They all did everything correct, just like they always did before. They thought they were on belay. They thought they were all set to be lowered safely. But they were not on belay. This is the crazy part. We can go around and on and on about this but whatever. This is the part I am talking about. If these three guys had just held the rope until they could feel their belayer take over then they could have avoided a lot of pain.

There are probably other things that will work here sure. This is just something that works for me.

Thanks sgain. Good info.

Wes

I sometimes hold on to the other side of the rope when being lowered on low angle slab. Actually, I give it more slack in this case. I think it's an awkward and unnecessary "trick". It will confuse the belayer. You should establish standard communication with your partner when you are ready to be lowered. Use hand signal( a fist) along with verbal signal, load the rope,THEN unclip your PAS. That's a true and tried method for me. I also establish the plan to either be lowered or rap off before starting the climb, for redundancy.

Ryan-You are correct, of course, you are an administrator.

Let me ask this another way. If you are at the anchor getting ready to be lowered, what do you do to insure your safety? There are several steps I immagine. You go through them and everything is good to go you are safe. You unclip your pas, sling or whatever you do. You let go of the anchor. You are in freefall. You are not on belay. You are going to the ground.

That's what happened to each of these guys. They all thought they did exactly what they were supposed to do. Not just the leaders but the belayers too. They had a plan. They thought they were communicating. They thought everything was fine.

What can be done at this point to save the day?

Its a crazy hypothetical problem brain teaser. But it's not hypothetical. It happens. Two climbers I know, actual friends of mine as well as this person in the podcast had this happen.

I do this almost everytime I'm lowered. Not a big deal. Nothing changes but my hand on the rope.

Thanks for your consideration

Wes

first, you weight your rope, then you unclip your PAS

leon wrote:first, you weight your rope, then you unclip your PAS

Done. That simple. Pull close to the chains, wait until your weight is supported by the belayer, unclip your tether (which shouldn't be taught at this point). No need to over-complicate.

leon wrote:first, you weight your rope, then you unclip your PAS

+2