Whatever...

Greg,, if something isn't yours and you know it isn't yours, then it's stealing if you take it.
It's not like the rope was up there for weeks.

Greg Miller wrote:I agree that its too bad stuff like this happens, but its a big world out there and not everyone knows.. or plays by the rules. at the same time i do find it hard to have much sympathy.. and i'd find it hard to call it "stealing''

I'd have a hard time calling it anything other than stealing.

Not to dampen the impact... but down at Potreo, the first bolts are often 20-30' off the deck, because any lower and the locals non climbers will steal the hangers to sell for cash. Several routes we climbed to the first bolt to find a missing hanger. I'd bet that non-climbers took your cord, no understanding of working on a project. Though, there was that one cat who was caught stealing project quick draws, and fixed-draws... could be that fool again?

Greg Miller wrote:I agree that its too bad stuff like this happens, but its a big world out there and not everyone knows.. or plays by the rules. at the same time i do find it hard to have much sympathy.. and i'd find it hard to call it "stealing''

greg, i'm pretty surprised that you feel this way. would you still feel the same way if you were spending your time and money to improve a route, ran out of daylight, and your rope was gone the next morning? how about if you fixed a couple pitches in the fishers, came back in the morning and your ropes were gone. would that somehow be different?

so, where does everybody sit with fixing a line on el cap, or jugging someone else's line? what about setting up a mini trax line, and running off to the nearest bush to take a piss?

pretty wide gray area, why not just take the high road?

Sorry to hear about the theft of your rope Bruno.
Keep the faith brother.

Greg Miller wrote:honestly, i dont leave gear or ropes hanging usually. To me stealing is having your whole crag bag stolen (broken window) out of your car, which has happened to me... suprised? bummed? yes, but i also realize i left in plain view over night. And i learned my lesson. Leaving a rope hanging in a public place that is easily accessable to climbers and non climbers, with no sign of ownership... im not saying it isn't wrong, just not surprised.

you said you can't sympathize. despite agreeing with you that it probably wasn't a good idea for you to leave your pack in your car in plain view, i can sympathize that it sucks that someone busted your window and stole it.

If I pick up your trash off the street and throw it away did I steal from you?

I would probably have coiled your rope off to the side, but I've pulled ropes and packed them out of areas before. Maybe the person saw you leave and grabbed it (very close to stealing) or maybe they came upon a rope lying around, didn't know the history of it, and pulled your trash out of the area.

If I leave ropes for later access I leave a dated note so others at least don't think I am littering.

Whatever!

GLD wrote: If I leave ropes for later access I leave a dated note so others at least don't think I am littering.

sure you do..... probably have it signed and notarized too, don'tcha....

Booty: the proud TRADition of climbers stealing each others shit and then bragging about it.

I see two pages of supporters, you can add me to that list and I thank you. I see one anonymous troll.

I wouldn't sweat it.

Too bad about the rope though. I would have left it fixed too.

I have heard of using fishing line or something way skinny and cheap run through the anchors to tag a real rope through. Well, to be precise, I've heard of this once, third hand, on New Mutant at Vedauwoo. Of course that's an area the locals would booty their grandmothers virginity if they thought it was left by someone with a green plate.

Locker wrote:Leaving anything behind and EXPECTING that everyone that comes across it is some super honest climber is about as foolish as you can be. The rope isn't gone because someone stole it. It's gone because you LEFT it behind. JUST my opinion. I personally never leave anything behind, KNOWING that people are not SAINTS.

these threads pop up once a month... it sucks the rope was stolen but it was left out for teenagers to get to, to me that says enough. I hate carrying the drill, batteries, gear, rope, water, and tools to and from the crag but most places I have lived I would never leave my gear. just cause everyone loves their Fat Tire in CO doesnt make them hippies.

slim wrote: sure you do..... probably have it signed and notarized too, don'tcha....

I most certainly do (not the signed or notarized part or the sarcasm part). I've done it canyoning at least 3 times in memory. At the exit raps of Heaps and Cascade Falls (one joins ropes and lowers the first down as they rappell so they dont have to pass a knot mid-air) and an entrance rap. I really like my ropes (I bought them) and those areas get a lot of foot traffic, so make it clear you are coming for it and you will need it when you get there. I'm not sure if that is effective or not, since I have no control groups, but all my ropes have been there.

Never had to do it climbing, maybe if I was working a long route and wanted to get all the way down and back up the next day...

I think Locker hit the nail on the head, your expectations in your fellow man are way off.

GLD wrote: ...you should know way better than to abandon your property on public land. Quit being a drama queen and pull your goddamn gear down, if you are too lazy to do that...

GLD wrote: If I leave ropes for later access I leave a dated note so others at least don't think I am littering.

GLD wrote: ...I've done it canyoning at least 3 times in memory. At the exit raps of Heaps and Cascade Falls... and an entrance rap. ...make it clear you are coming for it and you will need it when you get there. Never had to do it climbing, maybe if I was working a long route and wanted to get all the way down and back up the next day...

So, if you leave a rope up you are "abandon(ing) your property on public land" and "lazy", but if you leave a note, you're a stand-up guy like GLD?