For Gear Heads Only: Which Climbing Hardware Brand
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That DMM factory production video from last year was pretty awesome. true quality products |
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DMM does make great stuff. I have 6 Mambas from 1994, and they are still my favorite sport draws. I wish I had more DMM gear. |
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When it comes to Ice Tools one simply cannot outdo Petzl's line. The Quark is one of the best all-round tools on the market and the Nomics are unparalleled send-machines. When it comes to Trad pro I usually use BD for cams and nuts. The X4's are super-rad! I, by chance, have a DMM dragon cam and love it. I've spent time looking over the DMM line and love just about everything they have. I wish they had more US retailers. |
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20 kN wrote: Any moron can make a copy of another design, especially when that moron has the exact machining equipment used to make the original design. That takes absolutely no innovation.Why fix something that isn't broken? If the design was sound before, how is a different operator using the same equipment and material this great detriment? Innovation has absolutely no bearing on sustained quality gear production! I didn't know the label mattered so much to the low budget climbing community. Price vs. value always swayed my decision. |
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Craig Childre wrote: If the design was sound before, how is a different operator using the same equipment and material this great detriment? Innovation has absolutely no bearing on sustained quality gear production!Without innovation, we'd still be climbing on hemp rope and pounding soft iron pitons, nor would we have sticky rubbers & downturned climbing shoes. I don't care how quality a pair of hiking boots is, I'd rather climb on a pair of dedicated climbing shoes. |
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reboot wrote: Without innovation, we'd still be climbing on hemp rope and pounding soft iron pitons, nor would we have sticky rubbers & downturned climbing shoes. I don't care how quality a pair of hiking boots is, I'd rather climb on a pair of dedicated climbing shoes.Those are all advancements... original and improvements upon old designs. Doesn't answer the question posed. Innovation is a new idea, method, or device. Production is the process of making or growing something for sale or use. The design is good with Mad Rock on it... why then, would that exact same product, just with Climb X stamped on it, be any less than the original? What role does innovation play here? |
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Grivel steel |
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Craig Childre wrote: why then, would that exact same product, just with Climb X stamped on it, be any less than the original? What role does innovation play here?If you only buy copies (that arguably violate the copyright of the original), then you give little incentive for the actual innovators to improve upon their products. In this case, Climb X hasn't even improved the manufacturing process to bring down the cost of the product (they are purely sacrificing short term margin). I'm not hurting financially enough to want to save a few bucks like that. |
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Adam Burch wrote:Grivel steel DMM nuts/hexes/dragoncams for the alpine Totems are really nice To be fair, OP question (here and on ST) seems odd/broadMick Ryan was the advertising manager for UKC until the start of this year, who knows what he´s plotting these days! |
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Not plotting anything Jim. Well first photography book out this summer. |
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Prana makes the best beanies. |
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doligo wrote: First of all, the OP said it's not in any particular order. Secondly, Grivel's hot drop forging technology makes the best metal hardware out there (I'm just not very familiar with their rock climbing equipment). Family-owned, solar-powered, innovative, high quality - if the three words: "Made In Italy" don't mean anything to you. Maserati of climbing equipment.Missed the "no particular order" part. My bad. My post about the list did not have to do with how good the brand is. What I was responding to was market share/popularity. |
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Craig Childre wrote: If the design was sound before, how is a different operator using the same equipment and material this great detriment?Here you go. This should explain my point. All you need to do is look at the title of the paper to get my point. guweb2.gonzaga.edu/faculty/… |
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MJMobes wrote:The best companies are the ones that have climbers working for them, not just the designers but the people making the equipment. I personally dont like the idea of my thank-u-god piece after a long runout being made by some guy in China who makes 2 dollars a day.Agreed. bearbreeder wrote: guess you dont use camalots then what cams and nuts ... and harnesses and slings DO you use??? ;)I don't. I use Metolius pro, Misty harness, Fish slings, OmegaPac biners, Wild Things outerwear. It's been an absolute pleasure to actually talk on the phone to the people who are making the gear I use and share stories, feedback towards a common passion. I use these small and solid companies as much as possible because aside from the fact that they actually are making climbing gear that is of superior quality, durability, and design, I strongly support their focus and ethics. Additionally, their intentions and respect for their clientele and their community (both climbing and local workforce) are obvious in the way they operate. A few of the Euro companies like Wild Country (biners and large friends), DMM, Petzl (for ascending/descending devices) and Grivel (for screws and poons)/Camp (tricams), Mammut (ropes) for example have also respectably maintained excellent quality for a LONG time and continue to deliver great design with performance as their focus, rather than cost margins, which seems to be the disgustingly obvious focus of many massive American owned but territoriality communist operated corporations. I'm always open to newer companies too that seem to have something interesting to offer - Totem cams for example... But I have lost all patience for the crap the fat corporate american sellouts (akin to Home Depot, Walmart etc, etc) are putting out faster than they know what's what. |
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wild country - some biners and draws made in china |
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bearbreeder wrote:wild country - some biners and draws made in china petzl - some harness and headlamps made in malaysia camp - harnesses, helmets, nano biners made in china mammut - harnesses made in vietnamYeah, thats a bummer. It's getting tougher to stay competitive I guess and ultimately it's up to you as a consumer who effectively 'votes' with their dollar what you will tolerate and support. bearbreeder wrote:all the above products from these manufacturers are considered to be quite good generally...but I think that line is the balance point :) If the gear is good, great! I've just seen too many things to indicate certain companies going down hill the last few years - mediocre design and function at best and more than just a handful of failures across the board rendering gear utterly useless at worst including things like haul bags that barely make it up one wall before the seams go, crampons and picks that all snap in the same spot under normal usage because of poor materials or under engineered, inconsistent shoe sizes all over the place, multiple points of delamination, etc. |
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Just avoid Climb X and you will probably get something decent. |
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bearbreeder wrote: guess you dont use camalots then what cams and nuts ... and harnesses and slings DO you use??? ;)ohh bearbreeder from squamish who takes alot of WHIPPAS! My cams are BDs and tcus and they were made in the USA by climbers I knew, I've probably had them since you stopped wearing clothes your mommy dressed you in(if past tense?). Rest assured, plenty of whippahs brahhhh! |
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David Sahalie wrote:Prana makes the best beanies.I only buy the man-pris personally, thanks for the advice! |
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MJMobes wrote: ohh bearbreeder from squamish who takes alot of WHIPPAS! My cams are BDs and tcus and they were made in the USA by climbers I knew, I've probably had them since you stopped wearing clothes your mommy dressed you in(if past tense?). Rest assured, plenty of whippahs brahhhh!Such angry hatred little one ... Still taking going hands free on when you belay? LOL Im sure you whip yourself all the time Interesting how you moan about made in wherever hardwear when folks who actually climb and use their gear dont have too many issues with em Go back to whinning about em link cams that you dont use Hypocrit ;) |