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Is leaving your dog at the base of multipitch climb really Animal abuse?

Original Post
The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460

I never saw this interesting phenomenon before moving to the front range. But it seems to me that I've come to see this happening more and more lately. You're at the base of a popular multi pitch route, and a couple with a dog comes up and starts racking up for a five pitch route. A couple of hours later, you're descending from the route and come back to see the dog tied up with a spilled bowl of water and it's barking at everyone coming by.

In any other circumstance. If you saw a dog sitting unattended for hours on end , wouldn't you call animal protection and get that dog some help? But for some reason, I and many others just ignore it and let it be (and, hopefully, at least refill the dog's bowl).

Having a dog at a single pitch crag can be annoying. But at least the owners are nearby to care for the animal's needs, but leaving the dog at the base of a climb while you go up five pitches is just reckless and cruel to the animal.

Am I somehow wrong here? Is this in any way defensible?

I've decided that from now on, I'm going to speak out when I see this happening, and if the owner refuses to change their plans, I'm going to report the situation to the proper authorities in the area.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492

Around here (Gunks) there's a clear rule prohibiting unattended dogs at the cliff.

ikmortu · · People's Republic of Chicago · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 5

Couldn't agree more. Luckily (for everyone) I have never come across this situation.

doug rouse · · Denver, CO. · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 660

Had that this Saturday near the base of Break on Through in Eldorado. The dog, a Border Collie mix I think..was whining, barking, and running up to and leaping onto the cliff where his master had ascended earlier. I felt sorry for the dog, and he/she was clearly distressed..Seems like the owner placed the dog into a more stressful situation by bringing him along than if he would have left Fido at home. I love dogs, and have always had one, but I don't leave them unattended at the base of multi-pitch routes for hours on end. I suppose the owner expected the climbing community to babysit their dog while they were off the deck?

Suka D. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 0

I bring my four legged friend to the crag as much as possible (as long as there are three humans with, one belayer, one climber, and one to chill with the dog). But I also realize not everyone likes dogs. So if I'm going to a popular spot, he stays at home or I adjust my plans. As for multi pitch- that is jacked up!!!!!! What happens if there is a hungry mountain lion? or rattle snake? I would be calling animal control and waiting for the d-bags.

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
Suka D. wrote:I bring my four legged friend to the crag as much as possible (as long as there are three humans with, one belayer, one climber, and one to chill with the dog). But I also realize not everyone likes dogs. So if I'm going to a popular spot, he stays at home or I adjust my plans. As for multi pitch- that is jacked up!!!!!! What happens if there is a hungry mountain lion? or rattle snake? I would be calling animal control and waiting for the d-bags.
I plan to do just that next time. My two boxers are my best friends because, while not anthropomorphizing them, I recognize that they are beings with personalities and, are I say, souls. If I do truly love animals like I say, then I should stand behind my principles.

Also, I respect your system, and have used it myself every time I've brought Roose and Dublin to the crag with me. With three people, both the humans and the dogs have a good, stress-free time and everyone else at the crag is able to do the same.
Brendan Magee · · Parker, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

In Eldo dogs are supposed to be leashed and in your control at all times. Your dog is technically not in your control if both climbers leave the ground and leave the dog unattended even if the dog is tied up. I am a dog owner too but I never bring my dog to the local crag. I'd much rather focus on climbing than worrying about what my dog is getting into while I'm gone or while I'm trying to belay.

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
bmagee13 wrote:In Eldo dogs are supposed to be leashed and in your control at all times. Your dog is technically not in your control if both climbers leave the ground and leave the dog unattended even if the dog is tied up. I am a dog owner too but I never bring my dog to the local crag. I'd much rather focus on climbing than worrying about what my dog is getting into while I'm gone or while I'm trying to belay.
Would anyone more versed in such issues care to elaborate on whose jurisdiction this violation would fall under? Is it an issue for Boulder County animal control, or the park staff themselves?
mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41
The Blueprint Part Dank wrote: Would anyone more versed in such issues care to elaborate on whose jurisdiction this violation would fall under? Is it an issue for Boulder County animal control, or the park staff themselves?
Probably the park rangers, since they generally handle law enforcement issues inside state parks.
J. Broussard · · CordryCorner · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 50

When I first started climbing some of the more popular cliffs of today were still quite peaceful retreats; and my pooch would quietly and gracefully guard my bag and shoes, untied to anything. If you walked up while I was off of terra firma you'd be greeted with a wagging tail and a happy face.

It's been years since I felt comfortable bringing him along. It's more of a culture shift than anything as climbing used to be so much more relaxing.

Red · · Tacoma, Toyota · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 1,625
Jeffeos wrote: It's been years since I felt comfortable bringing him along. It's more of a culture shift than anything as climbing used to be so much more relaxing.
Agreed, but I think this is the case with most things in our society these days. Times are a changin!

Before anyone goes calling the authorities over "animal abuse", please try to assess if the animal is actually being abused. Not all dogs, like people, respond the same way. I've seen plenty of dogs behave their selves and have a great time while their masters climbed off the deck. Likewise, I've seen dogs stressed and not enjoying their selves. I think this is a case by case scenario and should be treated as such.

Edit to add:
Far too many dog owners are incapable of understanding their dogs and/or just have no clue how to raise one. They might not speak English, but they do have ways of communicating with people. Observe and listen to your dogs needs. Pick up on the signs and energies they share with you. If your dog is not enjoying it's time left alone while you climb hundreds of feet off the deck, leave the pooch with someone else or at home next time.
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

Our previous pup would be happy at the base. Never had an issue. We even did a few two pitch climbs without issue as we were well with ear shot and visually could see her. Now our current pup would say screw that and chew her leash off within minutes and be off. We tried that once while doing a pool session to practice kayak rolls. She was less than 30 feet away and chewed through the leash in minutes.

As for the OP, if the dog was an issue my solution would be to yell up to the climbers that their dog is in distress / out of control / being a nuisance and that you are going to contact the rangers - country animal control etc. Hopefully they will back to the base to take care of their pup before rangers - country animal control arrive. That said if the pup was being mellow but just toppled over their water I'd find the owner's water stash and fill the bowl back up.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

While I appreciate people who love there dogs , and realize there part of the family , I do not appreciate dogs at the climbing areas. ! And here's why .....

Shit ! Everyone says they pick up after fido yet in 30+ years of climbing I've yet to witness one single individual pick up after there pet !!!! Not one , but I've met quite a few hypocrites who claim they do !! So you still think everyone picks up after there pet?? well just go take at walk around garden of the gods or red rocks , this is but two examples.... local ones but I see the same thing everywhere I go !
I'm not even going into wilderness experience because there is no such thing anymore !
But I will say this , I think it's cruel and unusual punishment for a dog to be left unattended anywhere

I highly doubt animal control is going to drive miles out into nowhere to investigate anyway . And giving the owner a piece of your mind will do one of three things ......
1 you get a blank stare
2 you end up in an argument
3you get your ass kicked or end up kicking the shit out of some tool because you just had to open you cock holster and say something !

Everybody loves fido so why not devote some quality time to fido ? And leave them at home when you go climb ! It's really not a big deal because I'll bet poor fido gets ignored far more often while your at work , playing video games or updating your facetard page ect ect ect .

Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

Slightly off-topic comment re: "culture shift"

Dogs are now common on airplanes.

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

Dreading the day I arrive at the base of a multipitch route and find a dog with a hole in it's head and a gri gri on the ground.

Never EVER see dogs at the crag in the UK btw.

Dr. Long Arm · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 15
iceman777 wrote:But I will say this , I think it's cruel and unusual punishment for a dog to be left unattended anywhere .
iceman777 wrote:And leave them at home when you go climb ! It's really not a big deal.
Umm?

So does everyone in Colorado have a freakin Chihuahua that needs to be coddled at all times?

My dog is, well, a DOG, and he can certainly manage a few hours alone outside. We bring him climbing almost every time we go (unless it's an all or multi day alpine route, obviously). He used to get a little whiny when we started up but now he isn't phased at all, he just chills and wanders around until we get back. We rarely leash him, unless it's a place like City of Rocks where that is required and it's a busy weekend.

As for the shitting issue, my dog is trained to shit discreetly in bushes, etc, so that isn't a problem. Also, we rarely see other parties where we climb in central Idaho. All of last summer, at the 5 different sport areas we frequented, we saw one party of two. Besides the Elephant's Perch and the City of Rocks, we're lucky enough to not have to deal with other climbers very often. If I climbed in CO, my dog management might be a little different. Thank god I don't.

But seriously, leaving a dog at the base of a route is "cruel and unusual punishment"? Give me a break.
marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

If it doesnt affect my happiness or ability to make money then I don't care what other people do. And if for some reason I did think a dog's well being was at stake and felt the need to intervene then I would have a conversation with the owner, not call Animal Control.

Mike McHugh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 420

Some park maintenance dude observations about cragside dogs in Eldo:

  • This pup's owners left him on a 25' leash at the base of Rewritten while they had a leisurely jaunt. I heard this poor guy barking for four or five hours straight. He was scared and agitated - I didn't want to get near him to share some water (he'd knocked his bowl over long before I got there). I wouldn't have been comfortable getting on any of the nearby climbs.

youtube.com/watch?v=q-BGpyv…

Cruel and unusual, I dunno. Treating other climbers and the dog with respect, definitely not.

  • How your dog behaves when you're in the vicinity may be entirely different from how it behaves when you're not.
  • It's pretty much a given that people with aggressive dogs will blame the dog's behavior on the people nearby.
  • In seven years at Eldo, I've probably picked up a few thousand trailside bags of dog crap. I'd guess ten percent of those have been cragside.
  • From watching how these things unfold: Generally, the rangers try education then enforcement (ticket - I'm not sure if it's just a fine or a court date). When dogs bite people or are left in hot cars, the rangers will call in animal control and/or BCSO.
  • When a dog gets washed down the creek, the rangers generally get the job of retrieving the body - two last summer. The owners always say the same thing: "he was only off leash for a minute".
The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
idahomike wrote: Umm? So does everyone in Colorado have a freakin Chihuahua that needs to be coddled at all times? My dog is, well, a DOG, and he can certainly manage a few hours alone outside. We bring him climbing almost every time we go (unless it's an all or multi day alpine route, obviously). He used to get a little whiny when we started up but now he isn't phased at all, he just chills and wanders around until we get back. We rarely leash him, unless it's a place like City of Rocks where that is required and it's a busy weekend. As for the shitting issue, my dog is trained to shit discreetly in bushes, etc, so that isn't a problem. Also, we rarely see other parties where we climb in central Idaho. All of last summer, at the 5 different sport areas we frequented, we saw one party of two. Besides the Elephant's Perch and the City of Rocks, we're lucky enough to not have to deal with other climbers very often. If I climbed in CO, my dog management might be a little different. Thank god I don't. But seriously, leaving a dog at the base of a route is "cruel and unusual punishment"? Give me a break.
I appreciate you proving a dissenting opinion here. But it is exactly as you said, location is a big deal here. When I grew up up in TN, we lived on 230 acres in the hills. I had a chocolate lab named gunner who was a legitimate bad ass. When I was 8, and hunting with my dad in our woods, we came across a pack of coyotes on our way back home one night. It was the same pack that had been killing my dad's cows, and gunner charged into them, killing three before the rest ran off. In short, gunner was an outside dog that knew how to handle himself. If I lived in Idaho. And gunner was still alive, I'd absolutely trust him to take care of himself off leash (if permitted) while I climbed with the knowledge that when I called him, he'd come back. However this isn't Tennessee and it isn't Idaho.

Perhaps I should have been more specific, but what I've been seeing is dogs that spend all week cooped up indoors and without the animal instincts that would be necessary for them to be off leash in the backwoods, tied up in areas that require leeches for hours on end. And just because your dog is cool when you start climbing, and super happy to see you when you get back, that doesn't mean that in the interim, he/she wasn't super stressed or hungry or thirsty.

I think tiring an animal up, in the heat, or sun or cold without the means to properly relax and feel safe, is pretty much the definition of abuse. Sure, you leave your dog alone at home all week. But there, they're in a familiar environment with food, water, shade and a place to defecate without polluting other's recreational area.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

typically I leave Fluffy on the porch but I have been known to let her run loose in multi pitch areas, she is well trained, friendly, knows a crazy dog and stays away and there is no fucking way I leave my dog tied up with out someone around. She would bark if tied up even at age 14.

youtube.com/watch?v=kDZRUxx…

Eric D · · Gnarnia · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 235

A dog without a human to take care of it for 5 hours!!! I am surprised it survived.

Oh wait, dogs survived for thousand of years without us.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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