What is "World Class"?

The expression "world class" to me means climbing that is:

1. Large-scale rock faces
2. Excellent rock quality for a large majority of the rock
3. Many exceptional lines

The statement of "it draws climbers from around the world" only serves to help identify such places. What we really want to define is what are the characteristics that draw climbers from across the world? That is the heart of the matter.

Seems like the only way to know what a world class area is, is by logging a ton of mileage at a variety of venues. Let's say you only climbed at areas like Yosemite or Squamish or Bugaboos or Hueco Tanks. True they may be world class, and people might tell you they are, but since you haven't ever climbed at obscure, low quality areas, can you really feel justified in calling them world class?

I guess my example is just to further reinforce the point that as others have said, the term is completely relative, and subjective...but any area deemed world class by any climber who's been around the block is bound to have some fun climbing on quality rock. That's all that matters to me.

And yes, I'm surprised that Ryan is the only one who has mentioned RMNP so far. Considering the diamond is arguably the most famous alpine wall in the lower 48, and I see internationals all over the place up there.

The Bugaboos.

Clark Mountain, the climbing is phenomenal but seldom has visitors. The road sucks but the climbing more than makes up for it. I wouldn't mind seeing another party or two up there. Hard chargers from so-cal could easily do a turn around trip in a day (just avoid the Sunday traffic).

The Free Dictionary online says:
1. Ranking among the foremost in the world; of an international standard of excellence; of the highest order: a world-class figure skater.
2. Great, as in importance, concern, or notoriety

JCM wrote: I disagree with the difficult-factor here. I think that it is entirely reasonable to say that a crag is world-class area for easy routes. Regarding Michael Sullivan's comments above about Red Rocks, it is probably reasonable to claim that Red Rocks is world-class for amenable, easy, and accessible long routes. If you want a 15 pitch 5.6 with good rock, good weather, bolted anchors, and interesting climbing, Red Rocks is the peer of anywhere in the world, and thus worth traveling long distances for. It would not be world class, however, for hard sport climbs (although nearby Clark Mountain might be, despite its difficult access).

I think difficulty is important just for the simple fact that when we say "international" we mostly mean European. And in Europe, overall people climb harder, plus they don't specialize as much as they do in NA (i.e. more people climb more than one if not all disciplines of climbing). Also, take for example a ski resort or a golf course, I think it is safe to say for a ski hill or a golf course to be considered "world class", it would be important for them to be equally attractive to experts and serious recreational enthusiasts. No ski resort would be "world class" if all they boasted was the amount and variety of blue runs.

Having said that, if a crag has a lot of beautiful difficult lines, but the warm-ups are a pile, I don't know. It would probably be still "world class" but it would be like the Augusta National Golf Club - world class but super exclusive.

Pete Spri wrote:The expression "world class" to me means climbing that is: 1. Large-scale rock faces 2. Excellent rock quality for a large majority of the rock 3. Many exceptional lines

I feel those parameters are relatively broad. "World Class" to me means one of the best on the planet. One that stands out for having a very high concentration of amazing lines that don't just compare to those in other areas, but exist on an even greater scale. For example, I am a typical Adirondack climber who traveled to the RRG and felt that even a 2 star route there would be considered a mega classic back up north.

Jacob Smith wrote:It seems that there is "world class" and "should be world class." Places like Yosemite, Indian Creek, and Red Rocks are both, but other areas are one or the other. Places like the Index Town Walls

You're not supposed to talk about INDEX.....

in fact, everyone ignore it.... index is a huge choss pile and like theres giants up there that throw rocks at people from out of state, oh, yeah and lots of crackheads hiding in the bushes always stealing stuff out of cars..... and the occasional bigfoot sighting.

People please stay AWAY from INDEX it is no good. and not worth ever visiting.

Would we consider the liberty bell group as cragging?

i would put the gunks in the world class category, as it is one of the few places on earth where sub 5.8 climbing is actually interesting.

Index could have the best climbing in the world and it still wouldn't be world class due to the fact that the area around it is terrible compared to true world class climbing areas.

Another question you have to ask is are aesthetics and adventure quality coming into play? I am biased because I'm not much of a sport climber, too boring for me... but places like the RRG with massive amounts of gumby camping and route tags probably arent "world class" no matter how good the climbing is. That being said, no matter where you climb or what ya like, have fun and be chill :)

Three full pages about "World Class" destinations in North America and not a single mention of Baffin?

No wonder Burt Bronson no longer posts here.

Would be curious to hear what people consider to be world class by continent? North America seems to have been covered in great detail, but what about the others?

World class destinations are basically just the ones you hear about like say Yosemite/Rockies/European alps/Himalaya.

like you are talking to someone and they mention some crag over the other end of the earth and you are like, yea I have heard of that place, sounds kinda good type thing.

Jason N. wrote:Would be curious to hear what people consider to be world class by continent? North America seems to have been covered in great detail, but what about the others?

There is no climbing outside the United States of America.

I hear Canada has some great climbing, sounds like the USA is full of n00bs.

Go to Canada if you want to climb, go to the USA if you want to wait in line behind some slow pokes.

JCM wrote: The term "world class" is used quite often on this site, but in a rather variable way. It is often overused, by people trumpeting the quality of their sort-of-ok regional crag. But what areas in North America are actually world class climbing destinations, and what criteria should be used to make the distinction? For me, a fairly restrictive definition of "world class" is useful, since if the term is overused it begins to lose meaning. Many people on this site seem to like to describe any good crag as world class, but just because a crag is good doesn't mean it can hold its own at the world-level. Looking the other way, just because a crag isn't world class doesn't mean that it isn't a great destination of regional or national note. I've been to many amazing climbing areas, but only a few deserve the "world class" title. So how do you define world class, and what areas do you think deserve this title? I have a few thoughts of my own, but first I'd like to hear what the internets have to say.

I had this exact thought! I think in reality people need extreme volume of routes with maybe an exceptional climb or two.

There are crags abundant with classics but they have too low of route volume for most people. Before people freak out give me a "world class" crag with less than 100 climbs. 

I think Index is world class in terms of having the most circle jerking. The whole my world class crag is choss thing reminds me of elementary school boys saying they have the hottest online girlfriends, but they won't show you a picture. 

Edit: To be clear I think Index can be world class but most peoples takes on Index are cringe. 

Jeez, this thread is so old it's from when I actually climbed.