What is "World Class"?

It seems that there is "world class" and "should be world class." Places like Yosemite, Indian Creek, and Red Rocks are both, but other areas are one or the other.
Places like the Index Town Walls and Trout Creek should be world class, but are not because of things like very limited seasons, unpredictable conditions, and their shear obscurity.
Places like Mt Rainier are world class, in that people come from around the world to climb there, but don't really deserve it (it's a 14,000 ft frozen chosspile after all). But then the only reason so many people from outside the northwest climb Rainier is because RMI is good at marketing and they think its a stepping stone to Denali, so whatever.

IMO Trout and Index have exceptional climbing, but aren't world class destinations because the quantity of climbing is limited. World class destinations have a lifetime of climbing. Trout might hold its own against Cat Wall, but not against the entirety of Indian Creek. Both of those places are regional classics containing world class climbs, but not world class destinations.

Mount Woodson, one of my local crags, contains world class climbing, but only 20 feet at a time. It is not a world class climbing area.

JCM wrote:You do, however, have to stick to the "within the same genre" for the "drive past" rule to work.

Absolutely. Compare limestone sport to limestone sport. Long trad to long trad. Alpine to alpine. Etc.

Sure a gym can be world class, a world class gym. I'm personally not travelling any real distance to go to a gym but some will. The red river gorge is world class for sport climbing and while there is some decent trad climbing probably not a world class trad location.

That being said here is my break down of places i think are worthy of serious time and travel expense and multiple trips back (World Class)

Trad Climbing

Yosemite
New River Gorge/Summersville
Indian Creek
Red Rocks
Needles

Sport Climbing

Red River Gorge
Smith Rock
New River Gorge/Summersville
Lander area, Sinks, Wild Iris

Bouldering

Hueco
Buttermilks
Joe's Valley

Alpine

Winds
Tetons
Sierras
Cascades

That's a lot of world class areas but there is some serious history and great climbing in the states. If your using the Michelin guide method there are 10 3 star Michelin restaurants in the states, in only 3 cities the review restaurants in, 13 two star and over a hundred one star.

Crotch Robbins wrote:IMO Trout and Index have exceptional climbing, but aren't world class destinations because the quantity of climbing is limited. World class destinations have a lifetime of climbing. Trout might hold its own against Cat Wall, but not against the entirety of Indian Creek. Both of those places are regional classics containing world class climbs, but not world class destinations. Mount Woodson, one of my local crags, contains world class climbing, but only 20 feet at a time. It is not a world class climbing area.

I agree that quantity is an important factor.

I've always thought of "World Class" as being destinations which attract visitors from around the globe. Usually places that see this variety of users have pretty good climbing.

On the other hand, there can be very small crags that have great climbing, but don't attract people from around the world. Big South Fork comes to mind, though my experience there was very limited(and very small, it is not). I doubt that place would be called "world class" by anyone but...holy shit!

Out of this world class.

Out of this world class.

For the folks up north;

Squamish
Bugaboos
The Circque of the Unclimbables
The Ghost Valley

I agree with Winston but adding Squamish to the list. The Free climbing in Squamish is way more fun and plentiful than Yosemite in the 5.7-5.12 range. I love wall climbing and I go to Yos a bunch but for long free routes squish is where its at. And you can boulder, clip bolts and hangout with canadians. Paradise.

I would drive past Red Rocks to get to Cochise any day.

I am not the most world traveled person, but it seems that North America has the line on some of the most "world class" areas in the WORLD. There is limestone, granite, basalt, pretty much anything you would want to climb. Sport, trad, multi-pitch classics, single pitch classics, and of course huge alpine routes. I haven't done extensive research on great climbing areas elsewhere in the world, but have been to Kalymnos (which was awesome), would like to get to crags in France, Spain, Thailand, etc. All of these have limestone in common though. Being in the Northwest though I am 3 hours from squamish and an hour from another handful of crags that have some pretty classic climbs. I can also be in Joshua Tree, Yosemite and probably Colorado via plane and rental car in about 5 hours of travel time. Pretty awesome location around here if ya ask me!

Index.

Also Manchester Wall

In NA Squamish, the Gunks, and Yosemite are the only places I have been that I have met multiple parties from around the world.

World Class is simple yet vague... Would it be featured on a list of top 100 or top 50 worldwide? Dividing them into various categories... Granite, Limestone, Sandstone... It is a subjective term that expresses an opinion. Best in the World, Best Ever ... subjects of POV.

I also use this term to describe stone and routes that is 'better' than what we typically find at the likes of YOS, Indian, and Hueco. Again, an opinion ;)

Bobby Flowers wrote:Index.

First rule about Index, is that you don't talk about Index. Especially on a "World Class" thread!

+1 though.

index is great, but i wouldn't call it world class. primarily due to the sheer number of outstanding granite crack climbing areas. i would consider trout creek to be worthy of mention as world class as basalt with absolutely perfect cracks isn't particularly common.

I agree that world class is going to be subjective. I lived in Bend for 5 years but I would drive right past Smith to get to Leavenworth, but I don't consider Leavenworth world class. Squamish should be on thst list. Red Rocks as well.

I have to say that I've only been in Colorado for a year and I'm surprised by the lack of destinations from here mentioned in this thread. It seems people from here are all about the "Rado."

Fisher Towers, Black Canyon, Maple canyon.

I met a French dude at New Jack City. World class?

Monomaniac wrote:I think it's pretty simple (and others have said it up thread). If it's World Class, then there are climbers from around the world climbing there. If you go to Ceuse, Rodellar, or Railay, you will run into people from countless other countries who traveled great distances to climb there. You rarely find that in America, except at Yosemite (and perhaps recently at the Red).

I cant say anything about the red besides all the gym climbers in the east love it but I can say the Euros have a western tour that starts in Yosemite, then goes to Red Rocks as it gets cold in the valley. After that they all go to Jtree, its almost as if its a annual migration.

Zeb Rafaker wrote:I would drive past Red Rocks to get to Cochise any day.

Cochise is way better, you cant see or smell the slimy gross city from there. I guess if porn handouts blowing around in the streets and a 19 mile loop in the car daily is your thing then Vegas rocks.