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JCM
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jun 2008
· Points: 115
The term "world class" is used quite often on this site, but in a rather variable way. It is often overused, by people trumpeting the quality of their sort-of-ok regional crag. But what areas in North America are actually world class climbing destinations, and what criteria should be used to make the distinction? For me, a fairly restrictive definition of "world class" is useful, since if the term is overused it begins to lose meaning. Many people on this site seem to like to describe any good crag as world class, but just because a crag is good doesn't mean it can hold its own at the world-level. Looking the other way, just because a crag isn't world class doesn't mean that it isn't a great destination of regional or national note. I've been to many amazing climbing areas, but only a few deserve the "world class" title. So how do you define world class, and what areas do you think deserve this title? I have a few thoughts of my own, but first I'd like to hear what the internets have to say.
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Eric Chabot
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Apr 17, 2014
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Salt Lake City, UT
· Joined Jul 2011
· Points: 45
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SoBrave
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Sep 2013
· Points: 5
popcorn popping. this should be good. I'll start by helping us narrow it down: nothing in Colorado.
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Jonathan Dull
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Apr 17, 2014
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Boone, NC
· Joined Mar 2012
· Points: 415
Yosemite seems to fit the bill.
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JCM
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jun 2008
· Points: 115
^^^ I would agree that the statements above are true. But why? Justify your assertions. What makes a place world class...is there some way we can define this term?
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Ryan Watts
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Apr 17, 2014
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Bishop, CA
· Joined Apr 2013
· Points: 25
IMO, "World Class" = among the best in the world. One that people would travel internationally to get to. The bouldering in Bishop (Happies/Sads and Buttermilks) I think fits this definition. Yosemite has got to be on there as well. As a slightly more gray area one I think Eldo is up there, but that's possibly personal preference.
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doligo
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Sep 2008
· Points: 264
Depends on the criteria. For example, high concentration of 5.13 and above climbs, historic aspect, uniqueness to name a few. Usually combination of two or all of the above (Yosemite for example). In NA, I would pick Yosemite, Indian Creek, Smith, Rifle and Hueco Tanks perhaps? The Needles in California, but I'd probably like it to stay off the "World Class" list.
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csproul
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Apr 17, 2014
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Pittsboro...sort of, NC
· Joined Dec 2009
· Points: 330
Places in the US that I've been that i'd call "world class", meaning that I'd be ok with flying half way around the globe to go there: Yosemite/Tuolumne Sierras Josh (marginally) Red Rocks NRG City of Rocks Wind River Maybe RMNP/Lumpy if it was a family vacation in Estes or something like that Maybe the Tetons if combined with other WYO locations I love NC climbing, but I wouldn't fly 8 hours just to climb there Same with the Gunks
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Frank Stein
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Apr 17, 2014
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Albuquerque, NM
· Joined Feb 2012
· Points: 205
An area that you would travel to internationally, solely for the purpose of climbing at that specific area. Crag A, just because it is very good, and close to family type activities for the purpose of family vacation is not a world class crag. True world class crags are very rare.
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Matt Roberts
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Apr 17, 2014
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Columbus, OH
· Joined Mar 2010
· Points: 85
Ryan Watts wrote:"World Class" = among the best in the world. One that people would travel internationally to get to. I'd put the RRG on the list, if for no other reason than the Petzl RocTour visited.
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Dave Bn
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Apr 17, 2014
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Boise, ID
· Joined Jul 2011
· Points: 10
Michelin Stars have been successful at rating "world class" restaurants and the quality of the restaurant is stated in the context of how much travel should be invested to eat at that restaurant. I think this would make a great analogy for climbing areas (area analogies are simply my opinion): 1 Star - "A good place to stop on your journey." e.g., Lumpy Ridge, Eldo 2 Stars - "Worth a detour." e.g., City of Rocks, Black Hills 3 Stars - "Worth a special journey" e.g., Yosemite, Indian Creek, Bugaboos etc.,
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JCM
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jun 2008
· Points: 115
Ryan Watts wrote:IMO, "World Class" = among the best in the world. One that people would travel internationally to get to. csproul wrote:Places in the US that I've been that i'd call "world class", meaning that I'd be ok with flying half way around the globe to go there... I think these are getting there. One functional definition that I think might be useful is to say that a n area is world class if it is arguably as good as any other area in its genre in the world. There are a few particular things about the way that this definition is phrased that I find to be important. First: arguably. There is going to be some contention or preference between areas, such as Hueco vs. Font vs. Rocklands, but so long as you can make a reasonable argument that an area is the peer of the best areas of its genre in the world, it probably deserves the title. The other important point is in its genre. Comparing bouldering to big walls to ice climbs is futile. Of course, there is some judgement about how to define genres. If you define a genre narrowly enough, you could claim any area to be world class. The basic "is this reasonable" sniff test may apply here. There is also the airplane test. I.e. "Would it be worth getting on an airplane to fly halfway around the world to spend your 3 week vacation at this one area?" If the answer is a resounding yes, the crag is world class. If the answer is no or maybe, then it probably does not deserve the title. If an area passes both of these tests, I say it is world class.
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JJNS
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Sep 2008
· Points: 531
Yosemite Hueco Tanks Red River Gorge Indian Creek
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Guy Keesee
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Apr 17, 2014
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Moorpark, CA
· Joined Mar 2008
· Points: 349
doligo wrote:... The Needles in California, but I'd probably like it to stay off the "World Class" list. When I hang in the Needles, over half of the climbers are from other countries. But World class.... oh- you must mean Stoney Point, many traveling climbers go straight to the point, from LAX, on their way to the VALLEY. I don't know how to define World Class, but I know it when I feel it.
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Crotch Robbins
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2003
· Points: 277
Like many of the posters above, I describe climbing destinations as "world class" if people fly across the globe to climb there. Another good test if you are trying to determine whether a local area is world class is to ask "would I drive past X to climb at Y?" with X being a true world class destination. Would I drive past Ceuse to climb at Mount Charleston? Would I drive past Yosemite to climb at Little Cottonwood Canyon?
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Dobson
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Apr 17, 2014
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Butte, MT
· Joined Oct 2011
· Points: 215
Dave Bn wrote:Michelin Stars have been successful at rating "world class" restaurants and the quality of the restaurant is stated in the context of how much travel should be invested to eat at that restaurant. I think this would make a great analogy for climbing areas (area analogies are simply my opinion): 1 Star - "A good place to stop on your journey." e.g., Lumpy Ridge, Eldo 2 Stars - "Worth a detour." e.g., City of Rocks, Black Hills 3 Stars - "Worth a special journey" e.g., Yosemite, Indian Creek, Bugaboos etc., Perfect analogy. Sometimes we use the term to say that a specific route is similar to those in "world class" areas. It doesn't mean that the entire area fits the bill, though.
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Jon Zucco
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Apr 17, 2014
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Denver, CO
· Joined Aug 2008
· Points: 245
I once saw a thread on here where someone was going to fly out to Colorado from somewhere in the northeast in order to climb at the new Earthtreks. Could we assume then, that the Earthtreks could be considered a "world class" climbing area?
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JCM
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jun 2008
· Points: 115
Crotch Robbins wrote: Another good test if you are trying to determine whether a local area is world class is to ask "would I drive past X to climb at Y?" with X being a true world class destination. Would I drive past Ceuse to climb at Mount Charleston? Would I drive past Yosemite to climb at Little Cottonwood Canyon? This is a potentially useful definition, but not perfect. Very succinct, but it does run into the issues with the times you may choose to drive past a world class area to go to somewhere arguably lower-tier, but with something slightly different Would I drive past Yosemite to go to LCC? No, I wouldn't; ergo LCC is not world class. Would I drive past Yosemite to go to Squamish? Yes, and I have done exactly that; I think that for 5.10-5.12 free climbs of 1-day length, as well as for bouldering and cragging, Squamish is the peer of Yosemite. The walls are smaller, but the rock quality is more consistently good and the cracks are often more straight-in; plus the hang is better. Ergo, Squamish is world class. Using this same method (and a general sense of "within the same genre"), I have one word with which to refute any claim that Eldo is world class: Arapiles. You do, however, have to stick to the "within the same genre" for the "drive past" rule to work. You may drive past Yosemite to go to Maple Canyon. This does not mean that Maple is world class, if just means that you had a hankering for steep jugs that Yosemite would not satisfy. Additionally, there is the "there is no accounting for taste" issue...
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bearbreeder
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Apr 17, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Mar 2009
· Points: 3,065
is the place filled with locals or folks a few hours away most of the time ... or with people with funny accents flying half way around the world just to climb there? if the latter its "world class" literally ... ;)
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Guy Keesee
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Apr 17, 2014
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Moorpark, CA
· Joined Mar 2008
· Points: 349
Not to go OT but.... I was at the Buttermilks a few weeks ago and some Gym chick was all talking about this V5 she was working as a "project". She was really having a hard time on the V1's that were right there. She turned to her friends and comented on how her project was "GYM QUALITY"!!
So are there GYM's that are "world class"????
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Monomaniac
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Apr 17, 2014
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Morrison, CO
· Joined Oct 2006
· Points: 17,295
I think it's pretty simple (and others have said it up thread). If it's World Class, then there are climbers from around the world climbing there. If you go to Ceuse, Rodellar, or Railay, you will run into people from countless other countries who traveled great distances to climb there. You rarely find that in America, except at Yosemite (and perhaps recently at the Red). Granted, we're at a disadvantage because we're isolated from most of the world's climbing population (which is in Europe) and our country is not particularly convenient for dirtbag travelers. Be happy about that. Having your crag deemed "world class" by the locusts is not all its cracked up to be.
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