New Alpinism

kboofis wrote: Hah yeah, the power of internet strangers! Anyone experience their Zone 1 increasing since they've began training? Mine is so slow when I go for a run it's a little disheartening

A modest increase, maybe a minute or so per mile improvement. I'm not doing as much volume as Alexander, more like 2h/wk. Went for my first zone 1 bike ride today...definitely that same "i could go forever" feeling.

So the volume I was doing caused me to hit a BRICK WALL last week. I think pushing your volume a little in the transition period is a good idea, it will give you an excellent idea of what a good baseline to begin your base period with is. I thought I was doing fine and recovering quickly from my workouts until I combined a long Z1 run with a half-day of trad climbing. I was positively wrecked for climbing Sunday. It took two days after that to get back out on the pavement.

tl;dr: ramping up the volume or intensity too quickly will kick you in the ass, hard.

Is anyone using or planning to use the pull-up strength plan from the book?

Alexander Blum wrote:So the volume I was doing caused me to hit a BRICK WALL last week. I think pushing your volume a little in the transition period is a good idea, it will give you an excellent idea of what a good baseline to begin your base period with is. I thought I was doing fine and recovering quickly from my workouts until I combined a long Z1 run with a half-day of trad climbing. I was positively wrecked for climbing Sunday. It took two days after that to get back out on the pavement. tl;dr: ramping up the volume or intensity too quickly will kick you in the ass, hard. Is anyone using or planning to use the pull-up strength plan from the book?

I am also definitely having some issues with recovery...kind of shuffling and adjusting as I go. I've settled on feeling like I shouldn't be a slave to the actual days I have scheduled, and if a particular body part is saying "I'm worked!" I flip what's scheduled forward and do something else. But I discovered that Z1 is harder than I thought when I realized that I was running late for something and turned my Z1 bike ride into a Z3 bike ride...and found I had very little to give in my quads!

And yes, I confess that I'm doing the pullup strength plan also. I'm on the 2nd workout of week 3, I think. I haven't done a max rep test to see if it has done anything, was going to kind of save that for a "big reveal" after the 8 weeks is complete.

The main thing I'm noticing is actually not a great thing at all coming into spring climbing season: because I'm doing less in the climbing gym, my fingers are getting weaker. Current thought is to add a little hangboard workout to the strength training days. Another thought would be that doing the this pullup workout might make a lot more sense to start in January!

Planning to order the book this week but just wanted to ask a quick question.

I know it isn't optimal but I just wrapped up a rough few months of work (totally out of shape, haven't been to the gym or outside at all) and have a self-guided trip up Rainier with a training day on Hood planned for the beginning of June. I know neither one is overly strenuous but I want to get as prepared as possible. I'm hoping to spend the week or two beforehand couloir hunting around summit county if anything is still in so hopefully that will help.

Will the plan in the book help if I only have ~6 weeks before go time? Otherwise I might put together a rough plan from Twight's book and just try to hit everything a little to wake up what muscle is left, roll into some endurance work, then wrap with some long snow slogs before resting for a few days. Thanks for any thoughts.

MarktheCPA wrote:Planning to order the book this week but just wanted to ask a quick question. I know it isn't optimal but I just wrapped up a rough few months of work (totally out of shape, haven't been to the gym or outside at all) and have a self-guided trip up Rainier with a training day on Hood planned for the beginning of June. I know neither one is overly strenuous but I want to get as prepared as possible. I'm hoping to spend the week or two beforehand couloir hunting around summit county if anything is still in so hopefully that will help. Will the plan in the book help if I only have ~6 weeks before go time? Otherwise I might put together a rough plan from Twight's book and just try to hit everything a little to wake up what muscle is left, roll into some endurance work, then wrap with some long snow slogs before resting for a few days. Thanks for any thoughts.

I think that as long as you are comfortable with really ignoring performance on the rock, I think that you could do A LOT worse than following their transition phase plan to the letter. In terms of "general fitness" I am really feeling a very significant difference. But if you do what exclusively what they say, it's going to make it very hard to get in much time on the rock.

You didn't mention it, but if excess weight is also an issue, their regimen seems to be meshing really well with the fact that I'm eating a lot healthier and a lot less food.

Optimistic wrote: I think that as long as you are comfortable with really ignoring performance on the rock, I think that you could do A LOT worse than following their transition phase plan to the letter. In terms of "general fitness" I am really feeling a very significant difference. But if you do what exclusively what they say, it's going to make it very hard to get in much time on the rock. You didn't mention it, but if excess weight is also an issue, their regimen seems to be meshing really well with the fact that I'm eating a lot healthier and a lot less food.

That sounds perfect for my current goals. Really just looking to build general strength and endurance since I'll hopefully be doing mostly non-technical snow/glacier climbs through the end of June. How long does the transition phase last?

MarktheCPA wrote: That sounds perfect for my current goals. Really just looking to build general strength and endurance since I'll hopefully be doing mostly non-technical snow/glacier climbs through the end of June. How long does the transition phase last?

8 weeks is sort of their minimum, and I believe they say you may want to do longer if you're really out of shape.

If you're into numbers (as your username suggests!) and don't mind spending a little money, you may want to consider getting a heartrate monitor, I find it extremely useful for multiple aspects of this work. Doesn't need to be anything super fancy (although that's out there too if you want it), but ideally would allow you to set target HR zone alarms so that you can be notified audibly when you're under (rare for me) or over your target HR or %HRmax.

I use a free smartphone app (runkeeper) to track distance and speed, saves you having to get those features in your HRM.

The book also points out that without an HRM you can just run at "nose breathing pace" but the limitation there to me is that this really only tells you about the top of zone 1, and they stress that it's important to use as much of the zone as possible to get the full benefit of the work (I have no basis for knowing whether that's true, but it's what they say). So it's not clear to me how you'd monitor the low end of zone 1 without an HRM (or a watch and your finger on your carotid, which is kind of a pain while you're running or riding). Good luck on Ranier!

MarktheCPA wrote: Will the plan in the book help if I only have ~6 weeks before go time? Otherwise I might put together a rough plan from Twight's book and just try to hit everything a little to wake up what muscle is left, roll into some endurance work, then wrap with some long snow slogs before resting for a few days. Thanks for any thoughts.

Just a $0.02 tip from my experience for Rainier trips sir, I would advise loading up your pack with 45-50lbs and wearing it whenever possible for walks around town, to work, and on a stairmaster/stairs a few times a week if you can. I think that it helped me a bit, esp for leg/knee stability.

Mark,

I think that following the transition/first base period , adjusted for your time frame, would work out pretty well for you.

As someone who has just started deliberately training in Zone 1 this is pretty much how I feel:

theonion.com/articles/woman…

I've realized my other Zones are pretty well trained because I've always moved in them but my Zone 1 is preeeetty slow

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I'll pick up a copy tonight then probably be back here whining by next week.

MarktheCPA wrote:Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I'll pick up a copy tonight then probably be back here whining by next week.

The book recommends eight weeks of transition period before even getting to base period and you got six weeks. As with most training, it takes a minimum of three weeks to start seeing result. You don't have enough time to implement what the book is asking. So the answer is, no, this book won't get you ready for Rainier in the time frame you are asking. That's the bad news.

Here is the good news, people have done Rainier before this book came out, and people will do Rainier without this book. Assuming you are doing DC or similar non-technical route, spending every weekend from now and go hiking with a backpack with more weights than the one on Rainier at whatever pace as long as you cover the vertical and mileage. During the week, do weight training, and cardio for recovery. Clean up your diet a little bit.

Get this book for your future training program, not for the one in six weeks.

divnamite wrote: The book recommends eight weeks of transition period before even getting to base period and you got six weeks. As with most training, it takes a minimum of three weeks to start seeing result. You don't have enough time to implement what the book is asking. So the answer is, no, this book won't get you ready for Rainier in the time frame you are asking. That's the bad news. Here is the good news, people have done Rainier before this book came out, and people will do Rainier without this book. Assuming you are doing DC or similar non-technical route, spending every weekend from now and go hiking with a backpack with more weights than the one on Rainier at whatever pace as long as you cover the vertical and mileage. During the week, do weight training, and cardio for recovery. Clean up your diet a little bit. Get this book for your future training program, not for the one in six weeks.

So is your thinking that the transition plan is too gentle of an approach for his time-frame?

^^did you read the book? It makes specific suggestions about how to tailor your approach if you have less time. I think they actually use six weeks as their example. You are saying "don't use the fundamental methods of endurance training to get fitter for your trip, there isn't enough time!". What methods do you propose? Eat the maximum amount of chips possible per day while watching every episode of Game of Thrones?

Alexander Blum wrote:^^did you read the book? It makes specific suggestions about how to tailor your approach if you have less time. I think they actually use six weeks as their example. You are saying "don't use the fundamental methods of endurance training to get fitter for your trip, there isn't enough time!". What methods do you propose? Eat the maximum amount of chips possible per day while watching every episode of Game of Thrones?

You should improve your reading ability first.

I read what you wrote. You're not giving bad advice, and I apologize for getting snappy. All I am saying that there is nothing wrong with applying a more structured approach to six weeks of training then "hike with a heavy pack on the weekends, you prescribe, and you will get better results. Even over just six weeks. You will also get an excellent idea of what kind of volume and intensity you should start your next full cycle at, valuable information.

Optimistic wrote: So is your thinking that the transition plan is too gentle of an approach for his time-frame?

Not sure what gentle means, but here is how I see it. Assuming Mark doesn't know what his normal volume should be. It'll take him a week or two to figure out his volume just for transition period. Even if he trains all the way up his trip without any tapering and skip transition period all together, so he got four to five weeks left on his calendar.
The key for him is volume, he has to go on long hikes with heavy pack (start lighter of course, 10-15% body weight on week 1, until whatever weight he'll be carrying). He should also be able to cover the vertical gains he needs to do on summit.

All good advice, thanks everyone. I'm not totally out of shape and am still a semi-resilient 25 so I'll give the book a read through and will make sure to get in some heavy pack training. Hopefully going to have another trip in December so I'll just start transitioning now and try to get through a cycle in time for that one.

Looking at the transition plan, I am only supposed to work out 3 hours a week... But 25% of that (45 minutes) should be a zone 1 aerobic workout that leaves me tired from duration? Then I have about half an hour for each other workout day. The core workout as a warm-up looks like it could take half an hour by itself. I'm not sure I can workout 6 days a week and only spend 3 hours total.

Anyone else doing/done the transition period? I guess I'm just going to pick a few of the exercises each time to stick to the time constraint.

Anyone selling a used copy? Id love to pick one up.