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Top Rope Anchor Question?

Original Post
Bonneville Williams · · Salt Lake City, Utah · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 145

So me and my climbing partner are at a disagreement on how to setup a top rope anchor while sport climbing. After having setup a self equalizing configuration with the sling I use one locking biner for the rope to slide through. He says this is dangerous and that I need to use two locking biners with opposing gates. I've always been under the impression that you only use two biners opposing if they aren't locking biners. After the conversation I checked in Freedom of the Hills and can't find anywhere that mentions it being dangerous to only use one locker. All the pics in there even show only one locker. As always, any insight into the matter would be greatly appreciated. Trolls need not apply. Cheers.

Norm Rasmussen · · North Jersey · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 866

Two is better than one for any anchor, locking or not, IMO. Think SERENE.

FoamFinger _______ · · Rad Town, Not set (USA) · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 250

This is one of those gear nerd questions, but if it will salvage the relationship between your partner and you then the community shall respond.

The general rule of thumb is that if you have lockers you should use them. You can get away with one locker, but why would you ever just want to get away with something?
Use two. Or if you don't have two lockers use one locker and one non-locker gates opposed.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

sport climbs...two bolts....two draws, biners opposed...done.

IMO, I want 2 biners on the rope for any top rope. I don't much care if they are lockers or not. I don't care if they are well equalized. The locker at the MP of a TR is unattended, i.e., you cannot check to make sure remains locked at all times like you can when you're at the anchor. Therefore, I assume the locker can come undone and with only one biner you will be left with one unlocked biner. Not acceptable to me, so I will always use a second biner at the rope connection.

Ryan Nevius · · Perchtoldsdorf, AT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,837

It sounds like you have one sling...Which I'd argue is a more-likely point of failure. Given everything is rigged properly, one locker is fine. More is better, but one is fine. One sling, one locker a the masterpoint is fine.

That said, a quad anchor is better, two quickdraws are fine (since equalization isn't really a thing most of the time anyways). The more redundancy, the better.

matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155

i use one locker and one non locker is this situation, but make sure the other biner is opposed to the locker. Some people will say that you need two lockers. Some people will say that you need three non-locking biners on top.

The thing that is concerning about your set up is the use on only one biner. Two is better. The way you have done it probably ok, but sometimes lockers unlocked, ropes get twisted and flipped and weird shit happens. Having two opposing biners makes me feel warm an fussy inside.

Also, if there are any sharp edges near the anchor( which is not likely on a sport climb) i like to have two independent slings attaching the master point to each bolt. This can be accomplished by tying a knot into your sliding x or just clipping the rope to two different quick draws.

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60

It's a matter of preference. I personally prefer the sliding x with 1 single large locker for the rope and two regular biner sized lockers for the bolts. I feel that is a bit overkill 99% of the time, but there might be that 1% I have to worry about.

Max Forbes · · Colorado · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 108

If you have two lockers, why not use them? If your thinking redundancy, there is a pretty clear flaw there.. Especially in a sport climbing setting... If I have two lockers, I'm always going to use two.

Tobias Burgess · · Lincoln · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 30

Climbing is dangerous, to some degree, no matter how you do it. Whether you have one or two lockers. Two is probably safer than one. Personally, if there are two bolts, I use two regular quickdraws (non-lockers) if we're only doing a few laps. If we're gonna be top-roping the route for longer, than I use two lockers at the master point (maybe one locker and one non-locker if I'm trying to conserve gear, I typically have more non-lockers). I almost never use a sliding x and if I do I tie extension limting knots. But, none of that matters, it's just personal preference, there are no rules. If your partner isn't comfortable with something and you can't talk them into being comfortable with it, than either rig your anchors so they are comfortable or find a different partner. I'm assuming you're not uncomfortable with two lockers...

NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155
Norm3 wrote:Two is better than one for any anchor, locking or not, IMO. Think SERENE.
but 3 is better than 2…
CraigS. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 10

One thing no one has mentioned yet is that two biners (lockers or not) are better than one for how the rope runs on top rope. One biner is just isn't enough and tends to wear the rope more than it should. I read something on it in one of John Longs books a few years ago, but can't quite remember today. He gave a good explanation as to the what and why, not just for the SRENE nature.

doug rouse · · Denver, CO. · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 660

Craig's point is correct as far as the rope running better over two rather than one biner. Redundancy is always the best bet if there is any doubt. All of the above suggestions will also work..you don't even need a dynamic rope for toproping, but I would say 2-at the rope connection point is best.

Alex Bury · · Ojai, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 2,376

^^^
Using two lockers, or better yet three ovals (two outer gates opposed in respect to the inner one), creates a more stable platform for the rope. Using a single locker makes it more likely that the master point might shift during lowering which can pin the rope.
As for the one or two lockers thing...the standard practice for guides and other professionals is to always use two, gates opposed so long as neither gate is being pushed into a protrusion on the rock.

NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155
Alex Bury wrote:^^^ Using two lockers, or better yet three ovals (two outer gates opposed in respect to the inner one), creates a more stable platform for the rope. Using a single locker makes it more likely that the master point might shift during lowering which can pin the rope. As far the one or two lockers thing goes...the standard practice for guides and other professionals is to always use two, gates opposed so long as neither gate is being pushed into a protrusion or edge of rock.
but 4 lockers is even better than 3
Paul H · · Pennsylvania · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 5

I've always used two opposite and opposed lockers or three non-locking biners

Alex Bury · · Ojai, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 2,376
NickinCO wrote: but 4 lockers is even better than 3
Sorry thats not right either. Building anchors efficiently is also part of the deal....
When you use two lockers, try to use two pearshapes. They are symmetrical and can be opposed without losing their shape. Using locking D's will work but there will be a bit more friction and you will wear through them noticeably quicker.
NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155
Alex Bury wrote: Sorry thats not right either. Building anchors efficiently is also part of the deal....
I can clip 4 carabiners at lightning speed!
Alex Bury · · Ojai, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 2,376
NickinCO wrote: I can clip 4 carabiners at lightning speed!
Its not just about how fast you can "clip them" its also about not hauling too much gear around. It adds up especially when there is a third class approach to the top. Bringing just what is necessary is important (assuming you are committed to being efficient, perhaps youre cool with gumby mode, your call).
NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155
Alex Bury wrote: Its not just about how fast you can "clip them" its also about not hauling too much gear around. It adds up especially when there is a third class approach to the top. Bringing just what is necessary is important (assuming you are committed to being efficient, perhaps youre cool with gumby mode, your call).
as this is in the general climbing section and not the beginner forum.. you aren't sensing my sarcasm. Now dammit, this is 'Merica and more is always better.
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"
Two is better than one for any anchor, locking or not, IMO. Think SERENE.

but 3 is better than 2… "


I prefer to use 17 because it's safer.

;-)
NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155
Locker wrote:" Two is better than one for any anchor, locking or not, IMO. Think SERENE. but 3 is better than 2… " I prefer to use 17 because it's safer. ;-)
thank you! someone after my own heart.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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