Old dogs and new tricks

After 29 years of accident-free climbing I thought I was a pretty competent belayer. Turns out I still had plenty to learn. Luckily I'm still accident-free, but things could have easily have ended very badly.

This all happened earlier tonight when I was lowering my friend Kevin off a lead climb at the BRC. It's a scenario they warn you about in the pamphlets that come with biners and belay devices, but until now I'd thought it was just a theoretical possibility that wouldn't happen in the real world. I was using my usual setup, a BD ATC and a Petzl Williams biner (photo 1). The Williams is a sturdy screwgate biner with a nice wide gate, but it sometimes slips into a cross-loaded position, which is what happened tonight.

As far as Kevin and I can figure out here's what happened next. The rope was running against the locking sleeve and caused it to rotate into the unlocked position (photo 2). Then the edge of the ATC pushed against the gate and caused it to open slightly. The rope slipped into the gap (photo 3) and popped out of the biner. The gate closed shut again (photo 4), leaving the ATC in place, but nothing was holding the rope in the ATC (photo 5).

I didn't actually see this happen, because I was looking up at Kevin the whole time. All I knew was that there was suddenly a hard pull on the rope.

The saving graces were (a) Kevin's pretty light; (b) there was still lots of friction in the system, because the rope was running through eight biners; (c) my brake hand was firmly on the rope and I was instinctively able to hold it tight, even before I realized what was happening; and (d) I didn't have to lower Kevin very far.

Kevin was really good about the whole thing. He seemed more concerned about a minor rope burn on my hand than the fact that he'd narrowly escaped serious injury or worse.

On my way home I stopped at REI and bought a BD Gridlock biner, which won't easily slip into a cross-loaded position. I also have a Petzl Williams biner with a triple-action locking sleeve, which is what the Canadian mountain guides' association recommends (photo 6). I don't think I'll be using the regular screwgate Williams biner for belaying from now on.

Thanks for the report. Not something I would have thought would be common, either.

That doesn't happen with a GriGri

Wow, thanks for the report and the excellent graphic. Glad it didn't turn out badly.
I purchased a gridlock biner for belaying when they were first released because it's an intriguing design. I found it a bit annoying and didn't really adopt it at first. I recently starting using it again for no good reason other than I owned it. Now that I'm more used to it, it's not annoying and I really like it.

Old and Busted wrote:That doesn't happen with a GriGri

Was the biner locked on the double check?

And was the gate opposite the belaying hand? If not thr belaying motion can unlock it

A 3 stage autolocker will prevent such incidents

The gridlock in the screwgate version allows the two scenarios above ... A 3 stage autolock or a dmm belay master does not

Is thats your exact setup?

- atc xp
- lowering with the right hand on the brake, left on the climber side
- brake strand on the top, not the bottom
- gate on the right side

Im going to be at the crag with 2 partners today possibly, if so im going to try to reproduce the scenario under load backed up of course

Bearbreeder: Yes, I think you've described the exact setup.

I agree that a Gridlock won't prevent you from forgetting to lock the gate, or from putting the gate on the same side as the belay hand. But at least it won't easily get into a cross-loaded position. If the biner hadn't been cross-loaded I don't think the rest would have happened.

Place the biner with the gate facing the other way and it will tighten.

Seems to be a particular problem with the William. I originally got one for ATC belaying, and quickly replaced it after seeing how easy it would turn itself sideways and load the gate.

I've got a William biner as part of my belay set-up and have noticed that sometimes it does slip around on my belay loop. The idea that the rope could slip out, yikes. I'm buying another biner tonight. Maybe the BD Gridlock.
TFPU.

rocknice2 wrote:Place the biner with the gate facing the other way and it will tighten.

The Gridlock biner is a good fix for that. Unfortunately, the sand in local climbing crags wears out biners so fast I just get what is cheapest now. The floppy crossloading crap with belay loops has always been annoying to me.

CAMP harnesses get pretty good reviews and have "No Twist Belay Loop:" This is a patented feature from CAMP. An extra opening in the belay loop holds the belay carabiner securely in place so it cannot flip around and get loaded incorrectly in the event of a fall. The loop is reinforced with a piece of Hypalon to create extra friction for the carabiner once the webbing has stretched out after several uses. The No Twist belay loop is also nice for keeping the belay biner down and out of the way while climbing. This eliminates the need to attach and detach the biner at each belay making it far less likely to be dropped.

i don't use the belay loop..always a biglocker through the leg loops and belt it stays there until the end of the day....no twisting, side loading or anything.

I used a giant Clog biner until it didn't work anymore.now it's a Madrock green giant thing..really good.

of course i still sometimes use a biner brake for rapps so.....still here

I've always know of this being a possibilty but never ever hearing it actually happening, but I guess anything can happen. I've had my harness come un-done before and had a lot of doubts, but then tons more people started posting and said it happened to them before too. Some of the doubters actually experience the same thing few days right after. Glad no one got injured.

I have one of the anti-cross-load BD carabiners(that I didn't originally buy for belaying), and I really thought it solved a problem that didn't exist much in practical usage.

It's good to know that on rare occasion it really is more that just an academic issue! Thanks for the report.

rocknice2 wrote:Place the biner with the gate facing the other way and it will tighten.

I only feel a need for those smart biners when rope-soloing. I'm usually pretty attentive at keeping my eye on my biner whether it's belaying or rappeling. Petzl Attache 3D biners are notorious for unlocking easily, the gate just unscrews even when it's not cross-loaded.

I bought the metolius version of the locking biner that prevents cross-loading because I noticed that a traditional locker occasionally becomes oriented in a less than ideal way. It is pretty noticeable when it does, and relatively quick to fix, but all it takes is one really poorly timed fall.

This scenario you're describing is really strange -- seems plausible, but like you said, I've always thought of this type of thing as "just a theoretical possibility". But everything is, until it happens.

Glad to hear nothing more... intense happened. Thanks for posting

This sort of thing could never have happened with a GriGri... plain and simple. No matter what directions the gate unscrews, you can get screwed w/ an ATC like this...

Thank you for sharing Martin...

I think this is the 4th or 5th post that I've read this week, mentioning the Gridlock. Of those, the replies critiquing the device seem to be split between, "I am so safe now!" And "this thing is akward/ heavy/ slips out (insert complaint)" idk, because I didn't really care to much when skimming over. I can't help but think though that: 1. Buying the right carabiner 2. Using your carabiner correctly (something I seemed to have learned from this thread) and 3. Belayer's Attentiveness, should fix any perceived problem.

1. Obviously pear shaped, and hopefully shaped as to lessen likelihood of crossloading, but I wanted to raise the issue of the lock gate. My mammut bionic something... Has 1/3 of the lock mechanism w/ grip etched, while my Petzl Am'd has 7/8 w/ the grip. Not to menion the Petzl is way grippier and something I am very aware of. My bd lockers and omega pacific fall in the middle in terms of grippiness. I would be worried if my belay biner's locker had as much grip as the Am'd.

2. I had never put any thought into gate orientation in this scenario. Since I like to be routine, I will test this out and see if it is for me. I'm wondering, for those above who mentioned this, is this based on some sort of principle not directly outlined above?(Gate opposite brake) Or is it a right handed belayer saying that it should face left so as not to loosen locker on lower. I think my biggest concern would be in the event of crossloading, to have the most likely scenario cause loading upon the spine, and then play with gate orientaion to see in which way that would be.

3. Look up, look down, look left, right. Its not just about the climber, feeding and taking.

My 2 cents