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Paging internet doctors ('cuz I'm afraid to see a surgeon)

Original Post
Dara · · Peep's republic · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 21

Probably a rotator cuff injury. I *did* search the forums already, but every injury is a little different, right? So here goes:

Ice climbing about a month ago, my feet blew but my left tool caught my full weight. Since then I've had moments of pain (ranging from dull to "yow!")--sometimes in the shoulder, sometimes in the tricep. Continued climbing till the end of the season because it never hurt WHILE climbing; instead, the pain comes at other times, like when I roll over or push myself up out of bed, carry groceries, coil a rope, swim, shoulder a pack or purse, put on a seatbelt, etc. Haven't been to the gym since the incident (another story!) so can't say what sort of pain lifting weights might cause. I also have near-constant tingling/numbness in my left hand so there's likely some nerve involvement, but that might be from my chronic C-spine bone spurs.

Is this something that I can "fix" with massage, PT, RICE? I do NOT want to have surgery. I had my A/C joint replaced on the other shoulder plus rotator cuff repair about a decade ago and I don't ever want to go through that misery again. I'm thinking of seeing that miracle-working Dr. Steve in Boulder, so thanks to the forum posters for that info. But wondering who else has experienced this and has some other good beta.

And a side thought: It does hurt when I mimic swinging an ice tool. Maybe it never hurt when I was actually climbing because I was leading and my brain said "Nope! Not gonna feel that right now!"???

Bawdy B · · Denver, CO · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 95

I'm no doctor, but I did grow up with two. I'll give you the advice they would give me -
1. RICE will definitely not hurt you and is good practice for most any injury.
2. Don't do it if it hurts
3. Get some imaging done already and stop guessing.

marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

Not trying to diagnose you but it sounds more like a brachial plexus (nerve) stinger than a shoulder injury. The constant tingling and jolts of pain are classic symptoms. Also, most people with rotator cuff injuries or other major shoulder pathology usually cannot still perform overhead activities like climbing. Id recommend finding a good PT to check you out. There are various exercises like nerve glides that can be very helpful if you do in fact have a stinger. Imaging won't detect a stinger but a test called a emg/ncv might if it's serious enough.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Whatever you do, don't see a real doctor. Much better to get an opinion from someone here who is neither trained or licensed, and can't examine it in person. Way cheaper to get a diagnosis here.

Dara · · Peep's republic · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 21

Ah, Frank, sarcasm is so….rockclimbing.com.
I don't see any harm in soliciting opinions/experiences of climbers who may have had or heard of symptoms like mine. If it makes me a better-informed patient when I *do* decide to go to the doctor, that's a good thing, right?
Have a nice day!

Mark R · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

Could be a torn labrum. I'm not sure why it didn't hurt while you continued to climb unless it was just distraction like you noted. The MOI and pain during overhead activity seem consistent with a torn labrum. You're going to end up needing to see a doctor or at least a PT as others have mentioned but it doesn't hurt for us to throw out possibilities for you to research then discuss with a physician.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

Well I would at the very least have some imagining done ! Then you will have some knowledge of what your dealing with and can proceed from there eh ?

Not be be too much of a dick ( if that's possible for me ? um no) If it were me I'd have seen a doc long ago .

I fell on an ice tool once had it clipped to my harness slipped , spike stuck in the ground and the head got me right below the ribcage ( nice saddle for that on the top of the old style quarks btw) fracturing my floating rib . Had similar pains/ trouble for months afterward . Did/ didn't know what was happening until the images .

Moral of the story..... unless you get pictures of what's going on you don't know .

Erik Pohlman · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 4,035

If you don't want surgery, don't go to a surgeon first. Go to your physical therapist. If you don't have one, get one. They are the conservative, non-operative practitioners to see for pain or neuromusculoskeletal problems. I'm not saying success is guaranteed, non-operatively, but we are having a lot of success with problems even involving clear and significant tissue damage by treating with interventions from a physical therapist. If you are in Boulder, PM me and I can give you a few names. I only know one PT in NYC.

Erik

Mark R · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Erik Pohlman wrote:If you don't want surgery, don't go to a surgeon first. Go to your physical therapist. If you don't have one, get one. They are the conservative, non-operative practitioners to see for pain or neuromusculoskeletal problems. I'm not saying success is guaranteed, non-operatively, but we are having a lot of success with problems even involving clear and significant tissue damage by treating with interventions from a physical therapist. If you are in Boulder, PM me and I can give you a few names. I only know one PT in NYC. Erik
Great advice. Surgeons tend to have the "if all you have is a hammer" tendency...
Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143
iceman777 wrote: Moral of the story..... unless you get pictures of what's going on you don't know .
Sometimes, you get pictures and you still don't know. There is nothing wrong with asking questions to be better informed/able to ask better questions when you go see a Doctor/PT. I had shoulder arm pain for years that two MRI's did nothing to diagnose. Tried PT for a while, sucked it up and went back to the ortho.

"Your MRI shows nothing, but I am 90% sure I know what your problem is and can fix it surgically."

I am glad I took him up on the offer. My labrum was torn in two spots, badly. It is common for tears to not show up in imaging. Definitely aim yourself down the non surgical path, ask smart questions as you go, and don't be afraid to go under the knife if the other options fall short.
Gabe Schwartz · · Hope Valley · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 5

I had a VERY similar injury that happened to me in November of last year. I was leading a climb, my foot slipped while making a right hand reach, and I caught 100% of my weight on my left arm. I probably fell less than a foot before catching my weight, else I would not have been able to catch it. It hurt when it happened, but nothing bad enough to keep me from finishing the day out. On the car ride home I could tell something was up though. I tried climbing a few days later when I foolishly thought I felt better and could tell almost instantly that it was not better.

I then had symptoms nearly identical to what you are describing. Rolling out of bed was painful. Pushing up off the ground really hurt and reaching behind really hurt. My wife is a nurse practitioner, so I was able to get her constant advice as things progressed. For me, she said it was likely just a bad sprain and that it would take 4-6 weeks to clear up. I am 30 if that is relevant to your situation. She suggested against getting an MRI (for me) because that would only be a route to take if I was considering surgery to fix whatever it was. It took probably ~3 months for it to clear up for me, and I can't really say if it fully cleared up. Sometime early March, at least a month after I felt "better", I must have slept on my shoulder really badly and re-injured it. The pain was triggered by different motions, but I can't help to think that it was related to the original injury.

I climbed for the first time this year over the weekend. My shoulder still isn't pleased, but it is only mildly annoying. I am considering goint to PT but am not considering surgery. So I guess my advice is "give it time, if it doesn't get better in a couple months, figure out if you are willing to get surgery on it and get an MRI".

~ Gabe

Dara · · Peep's republic · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 21

Thanks, everybody, for chiming in.
Gabe, it does sound like the same thing as ours. I'm going to see a very conservative doc, probably get some imaging done, and probably go to PT. Had about a month off of climbing after my ice season ended and it was generally better but getting back into the climbing gym has convinced me it's not going away on its own. Good luck with yours!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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