Climber assists person who fell, then gets a citation from Forest Service
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20 kN wrote: That is absolutely not an excuse. Many of the SS said the same thing while slaughtering millions. People need to think for themselves. Using "I am just doing my job" as an excuse to do something wrong or ethical is beyond low. Best of luck to the climber, and many thanks to his rescuer. We need more people like him. michael voth wrote:wow, comparing a FS officer to the SS? really?Really, I bet the citation writer was a big fat scared pusswad who was shitting himself and couldnt do anything but try and be a tough guy to cover his fear of heights. Scared power trippers are all over, usually with the badges they flock towards. Yes, similar to the SS |
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Michael G. wrote: The officer may have been overly strict and should not have given a fine but not many first responders are bad people.how many first responders have issued tickets to climbers trying to help on the side of a cliff in history? Nobody is attacking first responders, just the one moron. |
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I blame Obamacare |
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20 kN wrote: That is absolutely not an excuse. Many of the SS said the same thing while slaughtering millions. People need to think for themselves. Using "I am just doing my job" as an excuse to do something wrong or ethical is beyond low. Best of luck to the climber, and many thanks to his rescuer. We need more people like him.Lt. Calley |
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20 kN wrote: That is absolutely not an excuse. Many of the SS said the same thing while slaughtering millions. People need to think for themselves. Using "I am just doing my job" as an excuse to do something wrong or ethical is beyond low.As for the whole "he was just following orders" being cast in a negative light, I think that is a faulty line of thought. In every position that I have held that revolved around security and safety, there was usually an oath of loyalty to something. To the people you enforce rules on, to your superiors, to a code or something similar. There are often orders I didn't agree with, but I had to trust the people above me were doing the best thing in their experience. And if I ever disagreed with them, I voiced my opinions and they usually had a counter. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. Point being, the ranger wasn't remotely close to any sort of Nazi thought process. Mass book burning, the superior race rallies, and the oppression of millions has exceptionally little to do a citation that shouldn't have been given. He obviously believed in his chain of command and the ideals of the position enough to lay down his life in the line of duty, and issue a citation he probably didn't agree with. Drawing an analogy from the Nazi party to the Forest Service is heinous at best. Who are you trying to be...Glenn Beck? I hope the climber recovers quickly, and the assisting climber gets what is coming to him. A pat on the back, free cold beer for a year, and sexual favors. |
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This thread may be the quickest validation of Goodwin's Law in the history of the webs. |
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Godwin's Law* -- and yep. Agreed. |
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So exactly what was the injured leader's partner doing while he was hurt? |
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No good deed goes unpunished... |
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Unfortunately I've seen this same type of attitude and ineptitude with SAR several times before. |
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Eliot Augusto wrote: As for the whole "he was just following orders" being cast in a negative light, I think that is a faulty line of thought. In every position that I have held that revolved around security and safety, there was usually an oath of loyalty to something. To the people you enforce rules on, to your superiors, to a code or something similar.The Constitution maybe? |
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Jonathan Dull wrote:I think the main concern had to do with the rotor wash from the Blackhawk and the possibility of him become a patient as well or possibly dislodging rocks that could fall onto the rescue operation or Blackhawk.This. The military probably has strict guidelines on when/where to fly when there are civilians involved. What may look like a good distance for us, was probably not enough for the helo pilot. Plus, once the chopper rescue got initiated there would not be a good way to communicate with the good samaritan - if you notice, the rescuers all have noise-proof helmets and probably communicate through radio with each other and the pilot. |
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MJMobes wrote:Really, I bet the citation writer was a big fat scared pusswad who was shitting himself and couldnt do anything but try and be a tough guy to cover his fear of heights. Scared power trippers are all over, usually with the badges they flock towards. Yes, similar to the SSI'm really looking for a sign of sarcasm here, but don't see it. The citation writer tracked a murderer through an unknown area knowing full well that he might be walking into an ambush and he lost his life doing so. He did it all in the name of keeping the public safe. "Big fact scared pusswad" might not be the best way to describe him. Knowing what little I know about the rescue, I don't agree with the citation either, but there are avenues for fighting tickets in this country. It sounds like the civilian rescuer has a solid case to fight his way out of the citation. Either way, the fine is probably less than the cost of a new rope and whatever gear he used in the anchor to secure the fallen climber. I'll bet he would have done the same thing even if he knew he would get a ticket--he certainly sounds like a selfless individual. |
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Marc H wrote: I'm really looking for a sign of sarcasm here, but don't see it. The citation writer tracked a murderer through an unknown area knowing full well that he might be walking into an ambush and he lost his life doing so. He did it all in the name of keeping the public safe. "Big fact scared pusswad" might not be the best way to describe him. Knowing what little I know about the rescue, I don't agree with the citation either, but there are avenues for fighting tickets in this country. It sounds like the civilian rescuer has a solid case to fight his way out of the citation. Either way, the fine is probably less than the cost of a new rope and whatever gear he used in the anchor to secure the fallen climber. I'll bet he would have done the same thing even if he knew he would get a ticket--he certainly sounds like a selfless individual.yeah no, even tough guy cops get scared and do stupid shit. Possibly he was being stupid again when he died. Possibly he was a moron. All I know is scared stupid morons are all over the place, usually with guns. |
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MJMobes wrote:Possibly he was being stupid again when he died. Possibly he was a moron.Anything is possible. I don't know why you would assume that he was being stupid. I'm not a huge fan of a large percentage of the rangers and cops that I've had contact with to be honest, but I think you're being unfair to this particular LEO. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about our troops serving overseas? Do you similarly consider them cowardly and moronic? |
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MJMobes wrote: yeah no, even tough guy cops get scared and do stupid shit. Possibly he was being stupid again when he died. Possibly he was a moron. All I know is scared stupid morons are all over the place, usually with guns.Can you imagine a family member of the deceased reading this thread and seeing comments like that? This describes the situation |
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As a civillian that has been underneath a SAR helo at a rescue. It is a loud scarey place to be in the mtns. Debris is flying everywhere. Personally who cares what was said I would try to get away!!!! A blackhawk yet even more noise & power!!! Rocks would be flying!!!! Thats why hand signals & walkie talkies R used. |
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dan zika wrote:As a civillian that has been underneath a SAR helo at a rescue. It is a loud scarey place to be in the mtns. Debris is flying everywhere. Personally who cares what was said I would try to get away!!!! A blackhawk yet even more noise & power!!! Rocks would be flying!!!! Thats why hand signals & walkie talkies R used.Did you read the articles posted or were you more interested in how many exclamation points you used and abbreviating three-letter words? ;-) The civilian rescuer was 200' off the ground and his rope was anchored 150' above him; it was also in use by the SAR team. At best, getting away would consist of prussiking 150' of rope directly above an active rescue. He rappelled 150 feet down the side of Shortoff Mountain to help. ... And this is where it gets sticky because once they got there they wanted me to leave, but I could not leave because they were using my equipment that I was going to use to leave with, he said. It's not like I'm on the ground and can walk away. You know, I'm 200 feet up a cliff." |
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MJMobes wrote: All I know is scared stupid morons are all over the placeYou certainly just proved that point. |