Belay from above

I have been climbing a few days a week in a gym for about a year and a half now and I have been very interested in starting to climb outdoors. I have climbed outdoors a couple of times on a top rope from below after someone had else set it up. Next week I am going to Mineral Wells State Park and from what I understand, you start up top, rappel down, and then climb back up. From what I've gathered, it sounds like there are bolts set varying from 0-3 yards back from the edges on top of different climbs. I'm assuming that we will have to belay from the top at some point, so what is a good setup for a belay station for this situation? Insight and past experiences climbing there are also appreciated. Thanks!

David,

I highly recommend you find an experienced partner or mentor, rather than learning over the Internet. Or hire a guide for a day to teach you anchor-building and belaying from above.

But to answer your question, you can still belay from the bottom, even if the anchor bolts are away from the edge on top. Build an anchor that extends just over the edge. Provided your rope is long enough, you can belay from the bottom.

Then, if you can't hike out, the last lap will require a belay from the top. Have someone teach you how to do that in person.

you don't need to belay from the top at mineral wells. just walk up and clean your anchors. all (or most) anchors are easily accessed from the top to set a TR.

agree with live instruction on how to belay a second, or at least having a very experienced supervisor with you. very advisable to not attempt after internet instruction only.

Thanks for the input guys! I have had experience setting anchors for top roping as well as had hands on instruction from experienced climbers and I am confident in my abilities and knowledge for what I will be doing. And I also wont be the the one with most experience in our group, I just have never personally set up a belay station from the top and wanted to know a method or two of doing it just so I know.

Not to confuse the op question but I have always wondered if people who say they belay a second off the harness redirect the rope above them or lock off with their brake hand above the device, assume an atc type belay device? I almost always belay off the anchor but have been curious how it would be done effectively from above given the geometry if you do not make either of those two adjustments.

I do not want to come off as a jerk, but you should do a google search. There are literally 100s of pages of info available for free on this subject.

There are many ways to rig a TR anchor, and probably even more ways that you can potentially mess this up. It all depends on the situation. If you cannot figure this out on your own, then you should REALLY consider hiring an experienced guide to teach you how to do this. Best of luck and climb safe.

Xam wrote:Not to confuse the op question but I have always wondered if people who say they belay a second off the harness redirect the rope above them or lock off with their brake hand above the device, assume an atc type belay device? I almost always belay off the anchor but have been curious how it would be done effectively from above given the geometry if you do not make either of those two adjustments.

The same way you catch a true factor 2 fall on multi

Your braking direction flips so you now need to brake upwards instead of downwards

The safest is to pull it to you hip and up ...

Also unless you belay off the rope tie in ... You risk a serious case of swuishy ballz syndrome if you belay off your belay loop

I suggest trying to lower someone directlyfrom the top without a redirect, with someone backing you up of course

Everyone who does multi should practice it every now and then

If you dont know how, how in the world will you catch a factor 2 fall (no pieces of clips in)

;)

Thanks John and bearbreeder...unless I am mistaken, you both described variations on what I meant by lock off with their brake hand above the device.

David Bridger wrote:Thanks for the input guys! I have had experience setting anchors for top roping as well as had hands on instruction from experienced climbers and I am confident in my abilities and knowledge for what I will be doing. And I also wont be the the one with most experience in our group, I just have never personally set up a belay station from the top and wanted to know a method or two of doing it just so I know.

I totally do not want to sound like a jerk. I have been the one on here before asking questions just like this but building anchors for toprope and belaying a second is a totally different ball game. I agree with everyone when they say get a mentor or guide, What was taken from your question was that you where planning on going out with just the knowledge you got from us which would be crazy. If your going out with experienced climbers why ask on MP?

Xam wrote:Thanks John and bearbreeder...unless I am mistaken, you both described variations on what I meant by lock off with their brake hand above the device.

correct ...

its not a natural braking position ... there have been accidents on both falls past the belay and simple lowers with people having issues with it

im too lazy to dig up the accident reports now but you can find em on RC, supertopo, and ANAM

short story is that the belayer wasnt skilled or wasnt expecting the change in direction, they braked downwards, their hands got burned and their partner decked on something

everyone who belays multipitch should practice lowering straight off the harness to get used to the change in direction IMO

David Bridger wrote:Thanks for the input guys! I have had experience setting anchors for top roping ...

That's not the impression I got from your initial comment, " I have climbed outdoors a couple of times on a top rope from below after someone had else set it up.

Hey David! I've been climbing many times at Mineral Wells State Park (I assume you mean the Mineral Wells west of Fort Worth, TX?). If so, the best way i've seen and use is to rig your top rope anchor with some static line with the master point hanging over the cliff. Thus you can belay from the bottom. Also if you walk to the end of the trail there is a nice stairway built that gets you to the bottom of the crag. Absolutely no need to rappel to get to the bottom. However, There are a bunch of people that go out here to strictly practice raps which is why you may be confused.

just to follow up on the question about belaying off the harness

heres is why its absolutely critical that folks who are doing multi practice belaying and lowering directly off their harness

because in a factor 2 fall situation this is what happens when youre not prepared for the change of load direction ...

from a witness

The belayer was clipped into a bolt around waist height (not sure if it was intended for belaying or related to the retaining walls) but she had clipped with a 120cm sling. When her partner (young American guy) fell from Lemington and tumbled down the gully she was pulled sideways and downwards dislocating her shoulder and losing control of the rope. She had some cuts and bruises on her ankle and knee but nothing serious. The ambulance was called because the climber had bruising on his back that could have been spinal damage. An emergency doctor climbing nearby attended to him. Lots of climbers stayed around to assist the ambulance crew. It was lucky that there were no more serious injuries.
The obvious lesson is that you should place a runner asap when leading off a ledge. It might not be obvious but this was a text book factor 2 fall, directly onto the belayer's harness at a very awkward angle.


from the decked climber

Hey guys,

I'm the guy who fell. Shilts pretty much nailed it. My belayer was teathered with a double-shoulderlength dyneema sling (shoulda used the rope, but I anticipated getting gear in above her) to a glue-in at waist height below Lemington.

I traversed the easyish horizontal crack from the ground to a small ledge at the base of the route (and above the void/gully). I relaxed/lost focus at the ledge as I reached for a peice (the first peice). At this point I lost my balance, and fell from the ledge past my belayer. I felt my fall arrested breifly but then I tumbled freely and screamed like a girl until I arrived at the bottom of the gully (in my defense I was pretty sure I was gunna die/ or be maimed when I stopped cartwheeling and hit the ground).

My partner, was pulled off her stance in the directon of the gully. She slammed the wall& flipped upsidedown and dislocated her shoulder in the process which is why she lost control of the belay.

This has been a very humbling experience. I fell in a place I had no business falling (easy,exposed, and unprotected). Obviously a piece above my belayer (which is easily plugged from the ground into the horizontal crack described above) would have prevented this accident. We are both lucky to escape with relatively minor injuries. My partner is OK and recovering back in Adelaide as mentioned above.


chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.…

There are a variety of way's to tackle belaying from above. One that I've recently become a fan of is belaying with a Muntner Hitch. It's a fun belaying histch that only requires a locking carabiner.

Best wishes,

Pieter
SmartRockClimbing.com